I’m still the scarlet woman after 16 years.

[Bilbosnaggins]

I met dh 16 years ago when I was 30. He was 25 and had a girlfriend of 4/5 months at the time.

I met him on a Friday night at a gig, we chatted for a few hours. We swapped numbers. The next day, we arranged to meet again on the Monday. He finished things with the girlfriend the day after we met at the gig, telling her that he’d met someone else the night before and that he wanted to finish their relationship, which they did.

I had no clue about any of this, until we met up on the Monday and now dh told me that he had been briefly been seeing someone else, but that he’d ended things with her the day after we met. For what it’s worth, I’d also been dating someone for a couple of months, I broke that off too.

His sister did not take it well and 16 years and two children later, she still won’t be in the same room as me. She will literally up and leave her parents house when I walk in. Dh has had it out with her a few times over the years, but she just says he’s a cheater and he’s a bad as me. PIL have told her to grow up and stop being so ridiculous many, many times. As has her now husband, who is lovely and who we have a good relationship with.

She’d met dh previous girlfriend once, briefly, when they bumped into her. His parents had never met her, they were just seeing each other, it was 5 months when Dh was 25, not serious at all.

According to MIL, it was all very childish afterwards, with declarations of “you’ll always be a part of my kids lives!” on social media (her children were toddlers at the time and had never met Dh girlfriend). MIL tried her best to shut it all down at the time, telling her she was being ridiculous.

Dh hasn’t really had a relationship with her since as she was so awful about me. They’ve only really said hello at a couple of family funerals. We also lived 300 miles away from dh family until a few years ago when we moved to the area they are from.

Long story short, it’s my lovely father in law’s 80th birthday next week and all he wanted was to go away for a few days to a holiday cottage with all his family.

SIL will not go if I, the homewrecking scumbag is going.

I have offered not to go. I love my parents in law dearly, and dh can take the children. PIL won’t hear of me not being there. But SIL won’t listen.

I know she has issues of her own as just be before I met dh, her husband cheated on her with her friend and left her with two small children. I get it, I really do. Dh has tried to reason with her that seeing someone for a few months and breaking it off as soon as you’ve met someone else is in no way comparable to your husband having an affair and leaving you.

I just can’t believe something so stupid has ruined their family relationship for the last 16 years!

I would be thinking of them. My dh wouldn’t want any more upset or stress. So I’d keep away for him. I’d take on all the background things if they needed me to, but my god, it would be an awful enough time for dh and his sister.

I think the old girlfriend probably blocked her after the Facebook tirade. Dh she said at the time when his sister tracked her down and added her on Facebook and was trying to talk to her, she told him and said that it was fucking weird and she hasn’t responded to her messages. He can’t remember if he brought it up with his sister or not at the time.

He said that wasn’t the first time, she’s one of those people who was obsessed with having hundreds of Facebook “friends” and added everyone she ever came into contact with.

Dh said they literally bumped into her. He just introduced them by name, didn’t say “this is my girlfriend” because she wasn’t. He said it was a couple of minutes at most.

No one is keeping in touch with the sister of some bloke they saw in another country for five minutes, who they had only said a polite hello to once.

Honestly? I rather think you have benefited from not having this appalling woman in your life. I know that you’ve said that her parents have told her to stop being ridiculous but it does sound as though her parents and husband do still tolerate her stomping off whenever you arrive. It’s just become “what SIL does”.

I am not sure how old your children are but I’ve seen that they are going. Do they know their cousins? You’ve said that she will sit there with a face like a smacked arse when your husband is there. Will she be pleasant to your children?

It was actually really awful, nothing like that. I think it affected her mental health quite badly.

I think you’ve been more than reasonable and you sound so kind. It’s great you’ve got a good relationship with you pil and are putting your DH and dc first. Really sounds like sil’s ship has sailed.. I hope everyone enjoys the holiday, especially you.

Yes the cousins all know each other well and have a lovely relationship.

when we lived away, PIL would bring her children to stay with us and when we visited PIL, her children would come over. Her older children are older teens now and will take my children bowling etc.

When she married and had children with her new husband, he will bring the children to see them.

She is fine with my children. She’s spent time with them on times when PIL have asked to have them for the day. She always does birthday/Christmas presents etc. she’s not some monster.

I think you are playing it well. You avoid the unpleasant situation and make the best of it with time to yourself. At the same time there will be quite a few people there who will probably resent your SIL for her behaviour and for it being the reason you are absent when you were wanted there. Who knows, perhaps things could come to a head again? Possibly not with how things have been handled over the years.

Has she ever spent time with your children before, it sounds like it’s just her husband that facilitated a relationship with cousins so possibly not? That could be the factor at play over the weekend that does something.

Edit: just seen your recent post re:children. Glad she’s not awful to them but she’s an odd one for sure.

Is she neurodivergent? I cant understand that level of black and white thinking otherwise?

Has your DH really never had much contact since? Maybe the SIL knows more than you think?

Those are the only 2 plausible explanations I can think of, as to why she still has a problem.

its hard to explain but it’s not like that. They just don’t care about her tantrums. MIL has said she just wants attention from it, so they don’t give it. They let her walk out and everyone just gets on with having a nice time.

So it’s not a case of that’s just her - it’s a case that no one gives a shit if she’s going to behave like that anymore.

Contact with who? The girl he was seeing. Why would be? It was never more than just hooking up and going to gigs every couple of weeks.

And I know there was nothing more than that. He was living in a house share with two women. Women talk 🤣 His old housemates are now two of my closest friends. Had their been anymore to the relationship or if he’d carried on seeing her, they would have told me at the time.

And as far as his sister goes, he told her to get to fuck after she started going nuts at him a few days after we met - he didn’t tell her he met me, but he told his mum the day after he’d met me that he’d just met someone and he really liked me, his mum told her, in all innocence as she was happy for him. Like I said, no one knew about the girl he was seeing as it was just very casual, it was only because his sister bumped into them once that she knew.

They were never close close as adults, only really saw each other at family events.

There really is nothing more to any of this other than she got it into her head that dh was in a proper relationship and somehow cheated when he met me.

No, not neurodivergent.

I wonder if you bear a strong physical resemblance to the affair partner in her first marriage, or have something about you that she conflates with her outside of the circumstances in which you got together with your DH. Something like that may have worked to trigger the very irrational response and why she can’t bear to be in same room with you when she can somehow just about manage with her brother (the one who, in her mind, did the actual cheating). Sorry for more speculation it’s just baffling how her mind works!

Can you have a meal out/night away at a hotel separately ? It wont work out and PIL will have 2 occasions to enjoy.She sounds crazy !

As I was reading I was thinking neuro divergent. And in women can be often undiagnosed and also look different. Women can tend to mask much more effectively. OCD also for example can manifest in relationships like feelings of contamination. I know people who will suddenly absent themselves from gatherings but kind of lurk in a corner. Shun certain people they have fixated on. Make any event about them. And they can be otherwise intelligent and appear otherwise fine.
The fact there was distance could have made it less obvious. But ranting on SM?
You have described her whole family working around her - they don't seem to think it's a you thing, what do they call it or don't they talk about it?

I wonder when "being a bitch" became "must be ND"?

It looks as though Sil transferred her understandable anger for her cheating ex onto you. My question is how is she with her ex? Clearly, she had no choice but to continue to have a relationship with him given they had children so how does she treat him? I’m wondering if he simply wouldn’t put up with this behaviour and so she treated you the way she would have liked to treat him?

This is such a crazy story that it would make my day if you could confirm that she is counsellor / social worker / psychiatrist / psychologist ie someone who advises people on how to manage relationships!

Her family think she’s an idiot.

They don’t entertain it. If she wants to storm off, they let her, they just ignore the behaviour.

They did try but after her behaviour at our wedding, they read her the riot act, she still continued so they just let her seethe and everyone else gets on with a nice life. No one is pandering to her at all. It’s never usually even mentioned.

PIL wanted me to come and if she didn’t, “sod her, let her sit on her own and be miserable.” It was me who didn’t want that and me who wanted FIL to have his children together and for no one to have any regrets after what will probably be his last trip away from home (he doesn’t look well at all these days).

I cant comment on any neurodivergence as I don’t know her. No one has ever said anything, I am assuming they would as MIL spent a career woking in SEN.

She’s a headteacher, so I am assuming she’s less of a twat at work.

I don’t know how she is with her ex. I know things were hard for a long while as PIL were very upset and stressed with it all, but me and dh don’t have anything to do with her and PIL don’t gossip.

I assume it turned out okay as her older children have always seemed very happy

A headteacher! My flabber is truely gasted! Think of all the cases of bullying and instances of breakdowns in relationships between teachers and / or parents she must have dealt with during the course of her school career! No doubt she's given lots of "grow up," "be reasonable" type of advice, The irony!

When you see ASD in the extreme it does change your perspective somewhat. One of the defining things is social challenges. I've spoken to diagnosed literate articulate teenagers who literally stare at the wall throughout the conversation and also attack parents at times of high stress and that is a very challenging thing and very sad for the parents.
These things can respond to therapeutic approach but won't just resolve because a parent badly wants it to.
Now there may be numerous views that people with ASD are not inherently violent and I'd agree in general. But as evidenced by numerous threads on here some can be dyregulated under certain circumstances and that's why close attention and support from an early stage is essential.
What does it look like in women - where - very generally- language and speech tends to be more evolved? And what happens when people encounter women who fixate for example? Because we are supposed to excell socially. A man attacking people is surrounded often by female carers concentrating on getting it right for him. With the risk of assault. We are getting an idea collectively what ' mild' ASD might look like. Or OCD. It can look anti social. A woman behaving slightly oddly socially ( on the scale) doesn't have access to the same range of collective understanding. She is not supposed to diverge socially.
Such a person might experience high anxiety about confronting her own fears/ routines. Ruminate. This could be exacerbated by transitions such as approaching bereavement.
I'm no medic. So I'm just speculating.
I feel OPs gentle instincts- not to force- are probably right.
Offering the father generous acceptance of his daughter's nature- however he understands it- might be the next best thing to 'reconciliation.'
If it's ND then it's likely parents are more than aware.

In fairness, I’ve met plenty of teachers who (while being good at teaching) were extremely strange people.

I can’t help but think a big contributor to the level of trauma involved in the SIL’s divorce was the SIL herself. What an unhealthy example she sets her own children. I wouldn’t be surprised if the only reason she continues to behave as she does is her inability to acknowledge that there could ever have been fault on her part, and fear of losing face - how ridiculous would you look to admit your reaction was histrionic?

Hey, so just thought I’d let you know how it went.

She was okay for the first couple of days. Great with the kids and PIL, frosty to dh but you know, he had the kids and the dog so he was kept busy. He said she has moments of scowling at things but in all honesty, he had our 12 and 6 year old dc constantly on him, showing him things, talking to him, he said he was just concentrating on them really and enjoying time alone with them.

On the third day, FIL was reminiscing about holidays when they were children and SIL said some thing along the lines of “and how some people change” and stormed off.

Her dh went after her,but long story short, she went home alone.

Like left her dh there with her two teens and their two young children and got a taxi to the train station.

They all due to come home tomorrow evening, they just stayed there without her, having a lovely time by all accounts.

(And before anyone asks, no, I didn’t go and join them. It’s a 2 and a bit hour drive, and Dh has the car, or a convoluted 4 hour train journey, with two changes, which is quite expensive. Also, I’ve rather enjoyed my time alone and have an old friend staying over tonight).

She’s just fucking batshit.

Anyway, she stormed off and they all stayed and enjoyed a lovely day at a castle and then dinner and drinks in a lovely 16th century pub 🤣 So I think there were no fucks given by anyone.

It sounds like she’s got a lot of issues. Glad they had a nice time despite her behaviour.

I’m hopeful that you’ll reveal the school she is headmistress of so we can all avoid her batshittery.

is her husband not absolutely fed up with having to deal with her??

Lord knows. He’s a nice guy. He’s busy with his two young children too (and the older two), but dh says they have had some laughs over the last few days.

I mean, imagine your husband/wife throwing a strop and leaving you with all the kids and the in laws 😳