Labour isn't Working - Thread 38

[Nuthatch26]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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It would be awful. As you say, imagine the bureaucracy involved.

And all the work for the human rights lawyers (and rightly so, in this instance).

Google tells me this about the US: 'Death row litigation in the U.S. costs significantly more than regular life-imprisonment cases, averaging 2.5 to 5 times more per case and totaling billions of dollars nationwide over the decades. Key cost drivers include lengthy pre-trial preparations, specialized two-phase trials, and mandatory multi-layered appeals.'

If people are using the cost of imprisoning killers as a reason for the death penalty, it's clearly not that straightforward, if the US is anything to go by.

Amanda Knox is doing stand up about it all now I read only the other day ! I gave up on the itv show after two episodes, I don’t think she was entirely innocent , but only my opinion there .

The hang ‘em high bridage would love a referendum on
this. I can honestly see why , but it would be costly and probably not solve much really. I do hate my taxes paying for a lot of these people , but the alternative is just as scary too. Not sure what to think

I think the campaigning for a referendum if it went ahead would be seriously distasteful. I don't think I could stomach it.

A potential referendum on this would be even worse than Brexit. It’s such an emotive subject and the brexit arguments have never gone away entirely.

@NoWordForFluffy yes I can imagine that the lawyers get a fortune.

Amanda Knox would never be a candidate for it though.

When people call for the death penalty to be brought back, I always think of James Hanratty, who was hanged for the so-called A6 murder, and whose conviction was overturned in 1997. The UK hanged an innocent man. One man too many. It makes me wonder how many more have suffered the same fate.

In 2015 Indonesia executed by firing squad several people who had been convicted of drug smuggling. One of the men had been born in London before emigrating to Australia with his family as a child. Because of that fact UK media followed the case from the early days of the arrests. There were detailed reports covering the appeals, the anguish of their families and finally the execution. No details were spared. It was horrible.

@NoWordForFluffy that must be really hard being so close to it.

Yes to costs and beurocracy ,I just wonder though what this man will be doing in jail he's attacking workers ,will he be heavily sedated ?

We have pretty solid evidence for some crimes now like Arthur lambino Jones ,star Hobson and so on there is no doubt like axel etc.
So I do wonder why keep them? And to add we have a prison crowding crisis with nasty people being let back into society after very lenient sentences .

Yes, I was a student member of Amnesty International and we had an amazing presentation from a former prison governor in a death penalty state who had changed his mind and become an abolitionist. He gave us lots of really compelling reasons why it was a bad idea, the cost being one of them.

And Timothy Evans.

And Derek Bentley.

BBC Bitesize gives a bit of potted history.

My late FIL knew Pierrepoint. He once said that he didn't believe in the death penalty any more. The Ruth Ellis one was in the news recently. The physical and emotional abuse she suffered from the victim wouldn't lead to her death today.

I agree, but not everyone would it appears - some commentators said she killed in cold blood and deserved to die.

Capital punishment is a sordid business that we should never bring back. Miscarriages of justice are one good reason to oppose it, but even if you framed the law to require multiple overwhelming physical evidence it would still be a grubby, horrible act.

I don’t think it would work anyway because I doubt any modern Home Secretary would ever refuse a request for clemency. I expect there would be a lot of victims’ families who would publicly oppose the penalty as well.

(Hanratty was guilty. DNA proved that a few years ago. He should not have been hanged, but he was definitely guilty.)