Labour isn't Working - Thread 38

[Nuthatch26]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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Rudakabana's sentence was limited (he couldn't be given a whole life sentence) because he was 17 when he committed his atrocity. So he wouldn't qualify for the death penalty, I imagine (if it were to be retrospectively applied), without a change in sentencing guidelines.

No, I realise that, it was more an example of the type of crime where even fairly moderate people would support the death penalty.

I think back to those who went to prison and it was a mistake. I am conflicted about those caught red handed , but you would need a ton of evidence and it wouid end up with a death row kind of set up. plus many jury members would say they were not guilty as opposed to the death penalty themselves. It’s a big old subject.

The question about the stocks is quite amusing. I’m surprised they didn’t ask about ducking stools or witch pricking.

Wonder what the public support for it is in the US? Anyone know? Obviously it’s going to vary regionally and state to state, and even more locally than that.

Well, the new PM seems to like more devolution, so maybe different councils would have different rules about the death penalty? Can you imagine the carnage with that ?

Who wishes Sunak was PM instead?

I suppose they're the 'somewhat support' 25% in that poll.

What @the80sweregreat raises is an interesting point though, where jurors might vote not guilty to avoid sentencing somebody to death. We don't want murderers to go free who would otherwise be jailed due to that either.

I wonder if those voting to support it would change their minds given that possibility?

😬

The latest polls I saw showed that people marginally do favour its reintroduction. Which is probably why they haven't had a referendum on it tbh.

I’ve read other mumsnetters say they wouidn’t go for a gulity verdict if that person was killed under state laws.
It would be a small percentage I guess, but one more factor to consider. I still believe that a referendum wouid be popular and probably yes

Yes that’s definitely an important consideration. As I say I’m curious how that plays out in the US, there must be a lot of people there who oppose it.

I think we can all agree that we shouldn't be trusted with another referendum!

No, but maybe a new referendum may shift the focus from brexit .. only a thought , it would be hell!
Ds2 is very anti any of this. I can see the appeal for the most hineous of crimes , but you would end up with death row UK style and even more protests and dividing people. It’s such an emotive subject

I'm not opposed to the death penalty in principle, but I do have serious concerns about wrongful convictions.
I followed the Amanda Knox case closely at the time, and am watching the dramatisation - imagine if the Italian state had killed her.

There was the case of a man who did 15 years and it was wrong. It took them all that time to find out. Once you’re dead , that’s it. Out of all the arguments, that is the one you can’t overlook. Caught red handed with cctv evidence and dna , it’s tempting to say maybe.
Which is why I think it wouid be very close , but a good percentage wouid vote for it.

Most of my life I've been vehemently against it ,esp because of that one innocent person etc all those elements of doubt.
But now I'm very middle aged and I see axel, no question he did it and he's maimed and really hurt others since his incarceration and there is no chance of him ever being freed or rehbiliated I do wonder why we are feeding and housing him

Yep. Some people are beyond redemption, but would it deter people also ? It doesn’t in the US states that have it.

At this point in time I'd be happy with decent sentences, and not the joke ones they seem to hand out, especially for sexual offenses.
Some people clearly are irredeemable and a danger to society, and it's those where I don't really mind if they're killed or just kept locked away.

Maybe it does deter some people but we wouldn't know if it did.
However maybe doesn't need to soley used as a deterrent . I'm also thinking of the child killers like the woman who murdered star Hobson ,Daniel etc

I'm in Southport. Elsie Dot went to the same school as my kids. My in-laws live on the same street as Bebe's grandparents (and my BiL went to school with her mum). So many of us have connections to the affected families and the whole town is still mourning the three girls.

I still don't agree with the death penalty as I simply don't think that having it is the mark of a civilised society.

The ones who killed children , I must admit I’d rather they were not around anymore. I just like to think they have a hell of a time in prison, but they probably don’t really.

I am centre right. I would not want the death penalty anymore than assisted dying. I don’t want people killed in
my name unless we are at war.

I read the report and followed it closely, and I still thought she was involved somehow until relatively recently. It horrifies me to think she could have been executed if they had the death penalty. I do also feel so sorry for Meredith Kercher’s family, the brutal murder of a young student who like me, went to study abroad as part of her degree, was entirely overshadowed by all the prurient stuff.

There was a great series on radio called Capital which was a satire of the Brexit referendum but where the vote had been for capital punishment instead. Since it was broadly expected to be no, nothing was done to prepare and then a few junior civil servants were set to implement it. They work through things like what method - the hard liners on the team what good old fashioned beheading the moderates want something more humane. There had been a promise of £350m per week for the NHS so they work out that they execute 50 people a day and wonder where they would be able to get enough prisoners from. I imagine it would probably play out like that in reality.