Thread 2 Burnham : Coragem e Esperança.

[DuncinToffee]

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https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5556659-thread-1-burnham-esperanza-en-cada-corazon?page=40

I disagree. It really shouldn't be beyond the wit of mortal man to design our public spaces so they work for everyone.

The current law is a disaster. From next week, any man intent on harm can walk into the women's loos, claim that he is a transman and has to use those loos, and do whatever the hell he wants.

If you are part of a group that enjoys privileges another group doesn't, any levelling up of that group means you lose your privilege. If you see beyond that to the benefits to society as a whole, you see it as a gain. A lot of people don't.

I'm speaking generally, really, as in my post above.

How many men claim to be trans men and what has that got to do with women's safety?

Most women who are murdered are murdered in their own home, mostly their bed, by a straight male.

Mayoral election goes to second round with Labour and Reform. Hopefully a lot of Green voters had Labour as second choice.

Manchester by election is going into the second round with Bev Craig and Sian Astley

No numbers given but apparently it was close to one candidate getting 50%

Pray that was Bev Craig 🙏

No prayers needed.

Goodness, you would not know that from the headlines.

No it doesn’t. Not at all. It just means more people have the privilege so it doesn’t feel so privileged. Which is good.

Exactly. I am agreeing with you. The guidance that is coming into law on the 5th of August is based on the assumption that there are hordes of men claiming to be transwomen because they want to go into women's bathrooms to assault them. It's a serious distraction from the issue of men murdering and raping women in real life - which happens, in the vast, vast majority of cases, in spaces which are not women't bathrooms or even women-only spaces.

But the change in the law does make it easier for men intent on harm to claim they are transmen and act accordingly. The thing is - you can't always tell. Anyone who believes that is a numpty. Which is why we need to sit down and hammer out practical ways of making things work for everyone. It isn't a zero sum game, because almost nothing in real life is (see also: immigration, benefits, the economy).

By definition privilege is something you have that others don't. If everyone has it, it no longer exists. Which is good imo. But many dissgree, because they like their privilege.

I often ponder this re: bathrooms. Some people whether they are transwomen, transmen or men don't feel safe using men's bathrooms. That is the real issue isn't it? Violent men making people feel unsafe.

Are men toilets unsafe? Or is that what we are supposed to believe?

DH and DS have been usinng them just fine, they are often filthy I understand.

I see what you mean. But I’m not sure how it changes anything.

That is the real issue isn't it? Violent men making people feel unsafe.
This

I was responding to the comment about wanting the screaming to stop, and saying why it never will. Resources are finite. Giving more to those with less means less for those with more. Unless the second group are altruistic or see the utility in equity, then they will scream.

I think everyone knows what transmen and transwomen are. It's a small amount of people (who I think are mostly far right), who object. But, you know, their Nigel is perfect because he takes the bins out.

i Dont think that’s the case. The screaming isn’t coming from the very highest up the ladder and that’s where the money needs to come from. Taxing them properly gives everyone more without materially affecting the pose at the top.

I think they can be for certain people. I know my brother has sometimes felt threatened.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-68144562

Myself and friends have used men's toilets during a concert. The men did say it wasn't very hygienic 😂

At the many Army Navy games I’ve been to men have invited women to use their loos because otherwise the queues and short interval would mean missing a lot of the second half. An added bonus is that those of us who weren’t squeamish whipped in and out at the speed of light, unlike some who spent about ten minutes in the Ladies’ cubicles.

For what it's worth, I think the public toilet thing is a bit of a distraction. A man who wants to can claim to be a trans woman or a trans man depending on the law. But there are other situations (prisons, abuse shelters, rape counselling services) where it does really matter, at times, that the people providing a service or sharing the space are of the same biological sex. Most trans woman and trans men for that matter don't intend harm, but if it's purely open to selfID bad actors can, and have, gamed the system. For closed spaces like prisons or for (eg) police personnel doing strip searches or nurses/doctors the biological sex of the service user and employee is known. And actually putting a male rapist in a women's prison risks harm to those women. The law needs to distinguish between women/men sometimes.

Returning back the this, if we remove compulsory voting, or my idea that to win you have to poll at least 50% of the electorate, then what does the thread think about the idea of somehow (details TBC) requiring a minimum of *say) 50% turnout for a candidate to be returned ?

Because being lectured by 75% of an electorate tends to irritate.

Yes I agree with this. It's common sense really. And 'bad actors' will always predate regardless.