Friend from my group keeps copying me and putting me down - sorry it is long!

[PippaRamadge]

I’ve been friends with a woman in a wider group setting for 10 years. We have a shared hobby - knitting if you must know 😆.
We have been in a WhatsApp group with 12 women since Covid. It’s a very active WhatsApp group and until recently we probably only met once a quarter or less in person despite talking every day on our phones.

One of them is quite negative but I thought nice enough to pass the time with in a pub whilst waiting for everyone else to arrive.
However I’ve been forced to become close to her by virtue of having a baby in the same academic year and living 2 streets away.
Mine born in the September and her baby born the following August.

Since then (and she has every right to) she has:

• Joined the local mum and baby group I set up.
• Started all of the same baby classes as me (and gone on about why they are better at the different time she does, compared to me/better for younger babies/better if you drive than go by foot/basically better if she does it)
• Taken up a plot on the allotment I’ve been on for 15 years (and said how and why her plot is better than mine)
• Put her daughter in the same nursery as my child, despite at first saying it was “grotty and working class” and then finding all the others nurseries full and having to “resort” to our nursery - where btw my child is very happy and thriving.
• Booked herself onto my other hobbies - hobbies she didn’t previously share.
• Booked herself in with my hairdresser, eyebrow woman and massage therapist.
• Bought loads of the stuff I have bought for our house.
• Applied for a job at my workplace - I would be her head of department.
• Said I shouldn’t be upset about being a victim of a crime and I was making our area look bad.

Other things:

• Slagged off my child’s hair - good luck doing your daughter’s hair when she’s 20 months and running around the house.
• Slagged off my child’s nursery clothes, nope I’m not giving her Organic Zoo clothes to spill ravioli or paint down.
• Slagged off nearly everyone in our mum and baby group.
• Slagged off my child for saying the shortened version of a word they have learned.
• Slagged off the positioning of my house on my road 🤯
• Told me that the days she’s going to return to work are “better thought out” than the days I work.
• Told people she “knows my dogs better” than me.
• Told people that I don’t in fact hold the degrees that I do. My education has no impact whatsoever on my working life, so her saying that doesn’t actually cause any issues it just makes me look like a liar and I JUST DON’T GET IT.

She is pivotal to my knitting group and I have some very close friends in that group but they have NO idea she is like this because they aren’t subjected to spending time with her ALL THE TIME.

All my peace and tiny bits of “me time” are either taken up with her being there or me feeling tense fearing she will turn up somewhere I am.

Now I don’t feel like I can do to my allotment because she’s always texting to comment on my fucking weeds, meaning she has let herself through a gate and into my plot for a look around.

I don’t want to leave these baby groups because 1. I set some of them up 2. I really enjoy them and so does my child. 3. They were pivotal in helping me deal with post natal anxiety and do the same for other women that I like to support.
But she fills me with an overwhelming sense of dread.

I’m absolutely exhausted by her constantly telling me why her and her child are better than me an my child. I’m having a rough time at work and with my wider family, which is causing depression so I’m probably letting this overwhelm me more than I would before I had a baby but truthfully I’m struggling.

This evening I took my child for one last go on the roundabout in the park close to our house. She turned up and proceeded to tell me I was wrong for getting on the roundabout with my child. Blah blah fucking blah.
Even if I don’t invite her around me she just shows up and tells me why I’m wrong.

This would normally be exactly what I would say, but in this case it sounds like OP has been trying that for at least 2 years. So i would lean more towards the ruder/abrupt responses suggested by the first few posters.

You don't like this woman. She's not your friend, so if you bite back at her whats the worst that could happen? Sounds like most people in your various groups like you more anyway, and if you told people half of what you've put on here there's no way they wouldn't sympathise with you.

It doesn't have to be an eastenders style screaming hairpulling fight, just literally next time she says something "wtf Jane? That's incredibly rude." And walk off/turn to speak to someone else. Don't engage further. If she tries to apologise say "its not the first time you've been really rude to me, I'm getting sick of it. Please leave me alone." And repeat. "No Jane I'm not in the mood. Please leave it."

Then dont do anything other that the bare minimum acknowledgement next time you see her. No rudeness but no smiling or chatting either. If she asks if there's a problem say something like, "Yes. What you said last time made me realise how many times you have been rude about me, my child, our joint friends and the people in this group (extra points if said people are within earshot!). It's made me realise that you clearly dont like me and I don't enjoy spending time with you, so let's stop the pretense we are friends and just keep things civil when we have to interact."

That way it's all on her and her behaviour, she cant complain to others that you've been mean to her because you haven't said one thing that insults her, and if she goes into details she'll have to start explaining the things she has said which obviously paint her in a terrible light!

If anyone else asks in any of the groups. "Yeah Jane has been really rude to me and people I like, multiple times so I just told her that we should try and minimise the time we spend together. I dont want to make anyone else in the group feel awkward so I'll carry on being perfectly civil to her whenever we all meet up, we're all grown ups, I just don't want to be best friends with her."

This. How did she get this job? You’re not going to be able to manage her, are you? You need to let HR know about the qualifications slander, for one thing.

Can I just say as an aside - thoughts and prayers to any normal woman called Jane whose name has been used in vain on this thread! Sounds like the new Karen 🤦‍♀️

Ignore any rude comments whether digital or in person. Respond sweetly but briefly to any nice comments digital or in person. Keep her at arms length in all other ways. Above all, don’t give her an inkling that you are bothered by her. Leave her messages unread and only respond to the nice ones with an emoji a few days later. In short, get her out of your head!

I had similar and unfortunately had to block and then ghost. It was really getting to me. If I bought anything then they would google it to see where I could have got it cheaper, They would sneer at any film,gig or show I went to. Then I had a family trauma and they seemed jealous that they hadn’t had that happen to them? That’s sounds weird but that’s what it was.
Is there anyone in your knitting group you could confide to or show them exactly what you’ve written here so they can see what you have been dealing with.
In the meantime I would politely back off and don’t tell her anything new you’ve done or bought.

Please tell me you shut down the job application @PippaRamadge

call her Mrs Elevenerife. You go to Tenerife, she goes to Elevenerife. Be blunt.

“yeah yeah Mrs Elevenerife, always knowing better. So hilarious!” (Sarcastically delivered)

This this all of this what excellent advice

I would say “Please stop criticising everything about me and my life. It’s not acceptable”

And repeat.

If she carries on then just block her number and blank her in person. Warn some of the mutual friends what has happened first so she can’t play the victim.

I mean the fact that she lied about your qualifications would be enough for me to go nuclear on this person. I agree with others suggestions of block/delete off all social platforms and keep contact (within your group settings) that you cannot avoid to bare minimum with short answers & move away if possible. She might ask why and I think the fact she lied about your qualifications is enough. She sounds toxic.

I agree. Treat her like a man.
I would want a cease and desist letter or non mol order.

And do whatever you can to stop her getting a job at your place!!

I would even be tempted to seek legal advice about her saying you lied about your qualifications - slander or libel? How did she make the statements, verbally or written?

Everyone else is being a lot more diplomatic about their responses than I would be I'm afraid. I would probably respond with a few death stares and ask her directly why she's being so rude? And if she protests, "Well actually Jane you are often rude and critical to me. I don't really understand why. I can only assume it's because you're insecure." Let her swivel on that.

Two things though - totally out of order to be telling everyone you have lied about your degree. I couldn't have tolerated that, I would have lost my shit at that.

The allotment - can you get a padlock for the gate? And tell her you are going to go organic, are planning to apply for organic certification and as such nobody but you is allowed on site due to the risk of contamination. What a nosy cow she is snooping like that.

If she is rude about your child, steely glare and "Why are you criticising my child Jane? Don't you realise how rude and hurtful that is? Shall I start criticising yours?"

No wonder you are stressed.
Do not allow her to be hired, whatever it takes.
As suggested, mute her completely.
Look carefully at your contact with her and cut it back.
Do not reply or engage and tell her you come to the allotment for peace.
Stop being so polite.
Every time she says something rude say "ouch"
Start counting how many "ouchs".
If she asks, tell her. I'm just responding to your very negative comments.

Your politeness is allowing this to continue.
Fxxk that.

Oh the degree business is unhinged and batshit territory.
Stop engaging completely and tell her that her lies about your education are the reason.
Stick to that rigidly.

Every time she comments on something like this, just say ‘OK’ and walk away/turn your back/start talking to someone else. Give her no energy at all. NONE.

We can have different views on this of course. But I would see her as getting the dopamine hit from saying these things and then OP not responding, just silently taking it. That hasn't stopped this woman. Asking her to repeat it just gives her the same frisson again. As many other posters have said, OP needs to toughen up in her responses. I think a 'No it's not' type response clearly puts the woman in her place but doesn't have to be aggressive or emotional in a risky way.

Yes I would block and grey rock.
Ive had people like this in the past but not to this extent. Best action is to act like you can’t even hear them. Don’t respond. Wait for them to find their next victim

I would do as pp said and be nice, bubbly and positive. Shut down any nasty comments about children but otherwise kill her with kindness. She’s longing for you to lose it and be unpleasant to her as that gives her ammunition against you. It might be a good idea to have a friend you can moan to about her, two friends of mine did this with a mutual mum friend whose husband was best friends with one of their husbands. She didn’t do the copying business but apparently was like Amanda in Motherland. Sadly years on, the nasty woman suffered a family tragedy and she seems much nicer now.

Basically your “sunny” self will confuse the hell out of her and catch her off guard. The one thing I would do though is not tell or tell your hair stylist, nail tech about her, so they know not to say anything personal to her about you.

And all of THAT in your OP @PippaRamadge is the reason why I have NO friends who I see regularly or socialise with. Just 3 friends who live 15, 25, and 45 miles away who I see 5-8 times a year, and speak to on Facebook. I have found most friends to be useless, unreliable, bitchy and catty, or just obsessive and weird. Literally, the 3 who I see 5-8 times a year (who I have known 20, 30, and 45 years,) are the only sane ones I have ever had! My 'social circle' is my DH, my 2 adult DC and their partners, and 4 or 5 neighbours who I chat to 2-3 times a week over the garden fence, or at the bottom of the driveway. I am in one hobby group, in the market town 4 miles from me. No friends there - but I do chat and have a coffee with 4 or 5 of the members once a week. (Well, they're sort of friends, but I don't see them outside the group...)

I don't have hassle or bother from anyone these days, as I have no extended family that I am close to. Brother and his wife moved abroad (6000 miles away on another continent,) a decade or so ago, and I have seen him once since, 2 years after he left, he popped back for 2 weeks. And many of my extended family are dead. Just got a handful of cousins who I have not seen for 12-ish years, since I left the area. I have Facebook contact and exchange Christmas cards with my brother and his wife and 2 DC, but only every couple of months, they are rarely on there, and I'm not on it much either. He also has zero contact with our cousins and their DC and partners....

I did try to keep in touch and visited them every couple of months or so for the first 2 years after we left, but none of them EVER came to me, so I stopped. I only moved 35 miles away, not 6000 like my brother! Not seen them for about 10 years, and don't even exchange Christmas cards now. DH is the same, parents and grandparents passed, brother and wife also moved abroad - 15 years ago, and he has no contact with any extended family, (except his brother and wife and niece,) not for about 2 decades now... They just all drifted apart, like I did with mine.

All my aunts and uncles are dead, and so are my grandparents. On both sides. My cousins could be dead for all I know. I don't think anyone would let me know if they were, as I don't follow any of them or their adult DC or anyone from my old town...

tl;dr, sorry I'm rabbiting on!!! I have made a handful of friends in my village in the past 11-12 years I have been here, and each one turned out to be a dud. Either just stopped bothering with me, or turned out to be a fruit loop, calling and texting constantly, coming to my house within 10 minutes if I didn't answer the phone 'to see if I was all right' and constantly wanting to socialise and go out and meet up with me. Not to unlike your very odd Single White Female type of friend @PippaRamadge !!!

I have no decent advice though sorry. I found the only way to stop/get rid of this weird obsessive friend in my village was to ghost her. It did involve leaving 2 of my hobby groups she was in though, and I lost 3 other friends in the village, as she turned them against me. (This was about 7 years ago, and it was about 6-8 months before she stopped badgering me.) 2 of the friends who 'took her side' have left the village now though, so her friendship group is dwindling! (The 2 who left probably left because of her!)

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I’m not sure being all Pollyanna nicey nicey is the right approach here. It’s gone beyond that.

She sounds an utter nightmare. It’s kinda verging on stalking and harrassment no ? Turning up wherever you are and applying for a job at your workplace , she sounds like a nutter. I would shut that down by informing your HR. You’ll have to go low/no contact , block her from texting you and all social media, stop engaging with her and sharing information with her about anything. Spend as little time as possible with her, drop her from your mother & baby group if you can, tell her her behaviour and slagging off others is not conducive to the harmony of the group. Call her out then tell her to F O.

Even if I don’t invite her around me she just shows up and tells me why I’m wrong.

I think you're unreasonable to have let this go on so long.

Are you letting her in to your home? Are you answering her messages? Are you meeting up with her?

Because none of that should be happening.

Tell her your baby class is full.

Yes you may be right - it's hard to know, it's one of the two I think. But yes I agree be calm and factual in whatever is said, I think the repeat what you say probably only works with semi decent people who would think i was out of order there - which on reflection this woman isn't.

Grey rock, say ‘hmm’ a lot, or ‘what a bizarre thing to say!’ If asked a direct question, tell them (while smiling!) that it’s a state secret! Make sure you block their phone number, lock all doors at home etc, buy a new padlock for allotment. Wear ear phones when working at allotment/walking/pushing pushchair. Only exception, if she says anything negative about your child go completely ott and pick up/hug/kiss child and say ‘it’s a good thing mummy knows you are absolutely perfect!’

Have to agree with this. It would finish me off her applying for a job at my workplace, and her getting it!!! I actually had a next door neighbour do this once at a place I worked at (public sector.) A woman left my office (there were 6 of us in this one particular office, 4 full time, and 2 part time.) The 2 part time were me, and this woman 'Louise' who gave in her notice after 10 years as she was leaving the area for a place 200 miles away. I did 3 full days a week, and she did Monday to Friday 10am to 3pm.

My next door neighbour knew I worked for the public sector and which department and where my office was. (Don't ask! She was just really nosey, and made it her business to know everyone else's business!) Yet she still applied for this job in my office, right beside me...

Anyway, as I say, she saw Louise's job advertised in the local newspaper, and applied for it. She said 'Zov, I thought I'd let you know - I've applied for the part time admin assistant to replace the woman who is leaving...' - It was 10am to 3pm Monday to Friday, and I did 3 full days, so she would always be there when I was there, and also when I wasn't! She said 'you don't mind do you?' I thought 'what the fuck do you think?' She was very nosey anyway, and I was actually genuinely horrified at the thought of her working not only for my company but right fucking beside me, like 8 feet away from me!

Luckily, my manager picked up that someone from next door to me was applying for the job, and he said it would be unwise to employ her, unfair on me, and a conflict of interest. Plus, 3 or 4 other candidates were more suitable anyway.

So he gave someone else the job. Phew! 😮

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Loudly, in public