Friend from my group keeps copying me and putting me down - sorry it is long!

[PippaRamadge]

I’ve been friends with a woman in a wider group setting for 10 years. We have a shared hobby - knitting if you must know 😆.
We have been in a WhatsApp group with 12 women since Covid. It’s a very active WhatsApp group and until recently we probably only met once a quarter or less in person despite talking every day on our phones.

One of them is quite negative but I thought nice enough to pass the time with in a pub whilst waiting for everyone else to arrive.
However I’ve been forced to become close to her by virtue of having a baby in the same academic year and living 2 streets away.
Mine born in the September and her baby born the following August.

Since then (and she has every right to) she has:

• Joined the local mum and baby group I set up.
• Started all of the same baby classes as me (and gone on about why they are better at the different time she does, compared to me/better for younger babies/better if you drive than go by foot/basically better if she does it)
• Taken up a plot on the allotment I’ve been on for 15 years (and said how and why her plot is better than mine)
• Put her daughter in the same nursery as my child, despite at first saying it was “grotty and working class” and then finding all the others nurseries full and having to “resort” to our nursery - where btw my child is very happy and thriving.
• Booked herself onto my other hobbies - hobbies she didn’t previously share.
• Booked herself in with my hairdresser, eyebrow woman and massage therapist.
• Bought loads of the stuff I have bought for our house.
• Applied for a job at my workplace - I would be her head of department.
• Said I shouldn’t be upset about being a victim of a crime and I was making our area look bad.

Other things:

• Slagged off my child’s hair - good luck doing your daughter’s hair when she’s 20 months and running around the house.
• Slagged off my child’s nursery clothes, nope I’m not giving her Organic Zoo clothes to spill ravioli or paint down.
• Slagged off nearly everyone in our mum and baby group.
• Slagged off my child for saying the shortened version of a word they have learned.
• Slagged off the positioning of my house on my road 🤯
• Told me that the days she’s going to return to work are “better thought out” than the days I work.
• Told people she “knows my dogs better” than me.
• Told people that I don’t in fact hold the degrees that I do. My education has no impact whatsoever on my working life, so her saying that doesn’t actually cause any issues it just makes me look like a liar and I JUST DON’T GET IT.

She is pivotal to my knitting group and I have some very close friends in that group but they have NO idea she is like this because they aren’t subjected to spending time with her ALL THE TIME.

All my peace and tiny bits of “me time” are either taken up with her being there or me feeling tense fearing she will turn up somewhere I am.

Now I don’t feel like I can do to my allotment because she’s always texting to comment on my fucking weeds, meaning she has let herself through a gate and into my plot for a look around.

I don’t want to leave these baby groups because 1. I set some of them up 2. I really enjoy them and so does my child. 3. They were pivotal in helping me deal with post natal anxiety and do the same for other women that I like to support.
But she fills me with an overwhelming sense of dread.

I’m absolutely exhausted by her constantly telling me why her and her child are better than me an my child. I’m having a rough time at work and with my wider family, which is causing depression so I’m probably letting this overwhelm me more than I would before I had a baby but truthfully I’m struggling.

This evening I took my child for one last go on the roundabout in the park close to our house. She turned up and proceeded to tell me I was wrong for getting on the roundabout with my child. Blah blah fucking blah.
Even if I don’t invite her around me she just shows up and tells me why I’m wrong.

I didn’t. I had shared stuff like that in our group chat over the years when people asked for local recommendations.

Have you talked to any of the other members of the group about her? I wonder if she does it to others or if it's just you. Worth pointing out to the one you're closest with and see if they notice it too.

If this is how you respond then you need to be A LOT less polite. She clearly thinks you’re best mates and she’s done nothing wrong. It ALL needs to come spewing out. She sounds AWFUL.

It’s possible. I certainly agree that the OP appearing to be fine with it all isn’t doing anything to make someone with poor social skills think there’s anything wrong with her behaviours.

Firstly, mute her. If you don't get notifications you won't see her messages and she's just moaning into the ether.

Secondly, stop telling her stuff! She only knows about your hairdresser etc if you tell her! If she asks about something, be vague – "Oh, just the same person I've been going to for years" etc – and brush off giving her details.

Thirdly, if you see her in person, smile politely then turn to talk to someone else. She'll soon get the message. If she reacts and says something about you ignoring her, use it as your opportunity to shut her down once and for all: "I find your negativity and criticism draining and think it's best if we keep our distance. If you don't like my choices, don't copy them."

The thing is, I suspect she considers you to be best friends now, because you've slipped into this set-up of doing everything together. Therefore she's "entitled" to give you her opinion. Shutting her down will make it clear you don't view the friendship in the same way.

Can you not just ghost her for a bit, take some breathing space and then when you inevitably see her tell her how you feel?

I worked with someone exactly like this who came with a reputation, was very practiced. She was jealous, insecure, determined to destroy me, an absolute fucking bitch. Aware of exposing my Achilles heel, of dropping to her level, I didn’t snap back, but hoped people would see through her. Some did but lots didn’t. The more I retreated the more the nastiness and lies appeared justified. She enrolled others. It was a nightmare for 19 years. Don’t be me.

Exactly like this. Stone walling her basically. Its draining as f@"/ but just grit your teeth. If she says someyhing completely unhinged headtilt, fake look of concern and hand on her arm or shoulder and go 'are you alright?'. If she asks what do you mean, or goes off just another headtilt and 'you sure you're alright?'.
Bright and breezy

Obviously you know her best so you can pick and choose which responses you think will work.

We don't know if she's just oblivious or is actively trying to crawl into your life....

I do think you need to be more proactive here. Agree with PP that you need to stop her working with you and to block her on everything you can. To other people, start making it clear there's an issue. 'susan has said some very cruel things to me'. 'Susan seems to have latches onto me and it's making things very hard at the moment'.

Some ideas to say to her.

In front of other people at group-

'Oh look it's Susan, Jane this is Susan, she just LOVES me, follows me everywhere and copies everything I do. HAHAHA it's just soooo cute, she's even trying to work with me now. Isn't that ADORABLE. HAHAHA.

When you are alone with her -

'Susan you are so FUNNY. I just love your dry sense of humour, you say the most RIDICULOUS things.'

'Oh you joined ANOTHER of my groups. Oh Susan you're just obsessed with me aren't you, isn't your husband jealous hahahaha.'

Love this
can you hire a range rover for a day and say look at my new car
see what happens 🤣

This is a tricky one but you need to downgrade her, think of it as cooling her out a bit rather than icing her out (which would just take up more energy). I feel for you though as she is draining you.

I had a "friend" whose child was the same age as mine who used to call round unannounced, criticise my parenting/home etc and boast about how much money her husband made etc. I felt trapped and resentful. In a way, it was a good thing because I learnt how to say "this isn't a good time" with a cheery smile and close the door on her rather than just suck it up. I started to be unavailable, short with her and quite firm. She backed off much much quicker than I would have imagined and started to become a bit wary of me. It's time for you to be different with her. You don't need to explain anything to your knitting group - just sit with someone else (get there early if need be). Just laugh when she talks about your allotment, tell her you don't appreciate being weed shamed and it it bothers her then she shouldn't go venturing near the allotment. Get yourself some good come backs and don't be quite so nice with her.

The lie about the degree, could you put a photo of your certificate on the group chat and just say, you'd heard that someone had questioned your degree but here is the proof. Say you felt you had to address it as it is a question of your reputation. About her applying to your work, I would have a quiet word about the inappropriateness of having a member of your social group in your team to your manager or the person recruiting.

I really would not be telling her that her communication upsets you, she knows what she is doing and she knows that her words have a negative impact on you. She is a narcissist and she wants your life, literally.

She is stalking and harassing you, she could become dangerous.

Ignore, completely, as far you are concerned she does not exist.

Never give her any information about yourself, what you do, where you go, zilch.

If you need to say something tell her to fuck off, no need for anything else, no politeness, just fuck off and turn your back to her. If she persists walk away, do not respond, she is nothing to you.

exactly this. How you haven't snapped at her by now I really don't know.

Right you have two strategic aims here:

1. Maintain good relationships with the rest of the group (this is important and a high risk if it looks like you're being mean to her)
2. Make it unpleasant for her to say these sorts of comments.

On 1 - have a few confidential chats with other people in the group, saying "I'm a bit worried about Susan - she keeps following me around and saying negative things about me." See what they think.

On 2 - you need to have a stock reaction which is mildly unpleasant for her. I'd probably start with "Are you OK Susan - you keep making these negative comments, is something wrong?" which will put the ball in her court again. If she continues try asking "Why are you being so rude?" which again puts the onus on her to reply.

She may genuinely have some MH issues in which case you can suggest she goes to the GP, gets counselling or whatever. If she's just being recreationally unpleasant, removing the pleasure for her will stop her doing it.

I don't know why you've told her who your massage therapist etc are. Just don't give her any recommendations or information going forwards

I know this is really uncomfortable as Brits, but there are a few rare occasions in life when you have no choice: you have to be blunt and direct. This is one of them.
Wait until you get her on her own and have 2 or 3 set sentences planned for this. Maybe role play it first with your partner. But you need to break this cycle and subtle hints/jibes aren't going to cut it with her. You are going to have to say something like:
Look, Ive been meaning to talk to you about something. You know i really like spending time with you but theres something that has been really bothering me, which is I feel like you are constantly engaging in this kind of oneupmanship, whether its my allotment or my working hours or my daughters nursery, and it is really starting to upset me. It feels like theres something about me that is bothering you for you to be acting like this, and I really value our friendship so should we talk about it?

You could try the head tilt accompanied by "Hmm, have you ever thought about why you have this compulsion to put other people down? Usually it's a symptom of insecurity. Perhaps you should talk to your doctor about it?"

My thought is that you both sound extremely busy with many hobbies and baby groups.

You could always pretend to start a new thing. Hot reiki? Reformer yoga? Knitted pilates. Watch as she ties herself in knots copying that.

Actually, ignore most of this. Re-reading your OP again, I've revised my opinion.

She's bullying you.

She keeps putting you down because I think she's sensing it's hitting a nerve, and she's getting a kick out of it.

With bullies, you need to act decisively and forcefully. So mute her number and stop responding to any messsages. If she turns up somewhere like the playground, walk away silently. Keep giving her the cold shoulder until she gets the message. Because what can she do? It's not like she can force you to talk to her!

If she complains to the wider group, tell them exactly what's been going on and how it's making you feel. Show them texts if necesssary.

She's a bully.

I‘be been considering your situation as I read the thread and all the posters have basically gone through your options. All are valid. Because this is so extreme in her case personally I would go on the offensive (whilst stopping short of any wording she could later repeat to others that
would seem to put me in the wrong)
Eg Daughter’s hair - did you mean to be so rude?
Her timings for playgroup are better than yours - Why do you think I care if you think it’s better?
Playground - If I want your opinion I’ll ask for it. (Then walk away)
Allotment - Don’t enter my allotment when im not there please (and the for repeated offences ‘Ive told you not to go to my allotment when im not there, why are you doing so?)
The really important one is lying about your qualifications so go really hard there, starting point is ‘why did you lie about me to x saying I didn’t have y qualification?
I too would make sure I don’t work with her - deselect her cv if you can or be honest with hr about her (factual only no opinion) behaviours that mean you don’t believe she is a good candidate - lying about you for a start
Lastly I would block her on all social media I could. If she asks why I’d be honest - because you only ever post criticisms of me and im tired of it

Making a joke out of it is the only way to save your sanity.

“are you following me” when she turns up at the playground.
“not so grotty now” whenever she mentions the nursery.
etc

Start planning come backs. I wouldn’t discuss with the rest of the group though because you’ll end up looking like a bitch and her the poor innocent victim.

It might be subconscious, she may not realise she’s doing any of this. Try being really plain and assertive. Ie make the subconscious, conscious. You don’t have to be cruel or aggressive, just extremely pointed.
“I see you everywhere these days. At my baby groups, allotment, and now my hairdresser and hobbies too! Are you copying me?”

It may only take one shaming instance like this for her to realise and start avoiding you. You can continue to be friendly in the knitting group.

Also, gently call her out when she upsets you. It’s not healthy to endure and suppress.

“Please don’t mention the weeds in my allotment to me. I’m aware of them and find it rude that you point them out.”

I would just be blunt... Oh Suzie, shut the fuck up, or nobody cares! She sounds jarring!!

I would just go totally cold on her. No "oh that's interesting/great", no "oh haha yes!" No silly games or witty comebacks. Forget that. She will love that sort of thing. This is the exact sort of reaction which gives them the sheer balls to keep doing it. I've met many like her in my time, and the only way I've successfully handled it is just to totally ignore them, and be cold when I do need to engage. She's had enough of your time and headspace now.

Honestly - no polite laughter, no explaining yourself, etc. Stopping polite laughter improved my life ten fold, when I had spent decades doing so.

"Cold"/total indifference is the only thing which works on people like this.

Blimey, what an oddball! She sounds like a sitcom character.

She’s probably insecure if she’s constantly copying and critiquing.

Don’t avoid anything you enjoy. Distance yourself from, and rise above, her stalking and sniping. No need to be bothered by what she thinks. Like water off a duck’s back.

Try to see the funny side. Tends to help, as laughter’s always the best medicine. If she criticises, laugh it off. If she’s really bad or persistent, say something like: “Ouch, harsh” while laughing.

As the kids get older, you’ll hopefully see less of her.

Hope your depression gets better soon. It really sucks 💐