DH comment during night wakings

[Sosotiredandconfused]

I have a 5 month old DD who is a terrible sleeper. She'll do a 2-3 hour stretch at first and then will wake every 1-2 hours for the rest of the night. This has now been going on for 2 months. I do all of the night wakings as DP is working. He's a teacher and finds his job stressful and hard.

I'm getting to the point where I've hit a brick wall with the night wakings and am struggling to cope. I suspect I may have PND. I'm already in therapy and have an appointment booked with my GP to discuss medication, although I'm not sure if any will be compatible with co-sleeping, which I do for part of the night as the only way to get some sleep.

I am struggling to keep going with the nights and am at my wits end. I get very emotionally distressed when the baby wakes up - feeling angry and frustrated. I can't stop crying and struggle to motivate myself to do anything. To be clear none of this is directed at DD - I always leave her safe in her crib and leave the room to try and get a hold of my emotions. I don't see how I can continue to do this. DP is very reluctant to share the night load due to his job. I think we would share if I insist, but I'm worried that if I insist it will put him off having another child - he was unsure about this one.

I suspect DP thinks my reaction to the night wakings are over the top and he says I have no choice other than to just get on with it. During one waking tonight I was trying to explain how I feel - that I can't carry on anymore and have hit a brick wall. I said I felt like just walking out. I think he took that to mean permanently (I meant I just wanted to leave the house and remove myself from the situation so someone else could deal with it). He said if I left he'd have to put DD up for adoption as he wouldn't be able to cope with looking after her and working. I didn't know what to say to that so pointed out that she's a joint responsibility and not just mine, and would he put her up for adoption if I died? He said maybe if my parents couldn't help out (they live 1.5hrs away). I was very shocked and just got on with getting DD settled and told him to go back to bed.

I don't know whether to just take this as something said when emotions were high at 2am and just leave it, or bring it up again tomorrow. If I should bring it up I'm not sure how to approach it. Its made me think he sees DD as just my responsibility and has made me feel more alone and like everything is on me. It's even more surprising as he was great when he was on paternity leave - couldn't have been more supportive/ done more for us.

Any tips on getting DD to sleep/how to get through also appreciated. I feel I've tried everything - late/early bedtime, strict/relaxed routine, big bottle before bed (she's combi fed), warm room/ cool room.

Also grateful if you could go easy on my behaviour during the night wakes. I feel ashamed enough as it is and like a shit mum already.

I recall this time and the impact of lack of sleep on me was just horrific. I felt like I was losing my mind. Your DH needs to stop minimising how you feel and he can absolutely do some of the wakings.
One thing it took time for me to understand which sounds obvious but didn’t feel it at the time was that both my DH and I were experiencing our days very differently when we had a new baby and we both felt the other was not having as tough a time which meant resentment built. What really helped was talking really honestly about things. This made us work more as a team. I send you hugs, this time will pass x

Husband can do Fridays and Saturdays to give you a break. Minimum.

I thought about putting DS up for adoption briefly when he was a newborn, I was shattered, felt miserable and felt like I was failing him and he'd be better off with a mummy who didn't cry all the time. I didn't, but the way your husband said it seems very cold.

Sometimes think it's worse having a partner who won't do their fair share than being single. Yes everything is on me, but I don't have the stress or resentment that comes with having a useless father in the mix.

Sleep deprivation is a known form of torture, so I'm not surprised you've hit a wall.

There’s a lot to unpack here, but I just want to say first that 4-7 months is the worst that sleep ever got with both of my DC. It is the absolute depths and never got worse than that.

All the people saying ‘my DC didn’t sleep through till 4’ etc are really unhelpful. That isn’t the norm, and also you don’t have to live like that indefinitely. There are no magic fixes, but we used a gentle sleep training method at 6 months with both and saw massive improvements. DS was sleeping through 90% of nights from 9 months. DD has been trickier, and her sleep is much more affected by illness and teething than DS’s, but now at 18 months she’s sleeping through far more nights than she’s waking, especially when she’s well.

Please look up Hannah Love. You may have heard some negative things about sleep consultants recently but she’s a registered nurse and ex nanny, and she follows all safe sleep guidelines (while supporting safe co-sleeping). It’s really gentle and there’s absolutely no leaving your baby to cry. She has a book, a supported online course or you can get 121 consultations depending on budget and need. And she has a lovely supportive Facebook community you can join. Just knowing you’re not alone and having a plan to follow made it all feel so much more manageable for me.

As for your husband, his comments are completely unacceptable and I would be having a serious conversation with him about it. They are either extremely selfish and designed to make you feel more guilty and alone, or he is struggling with his own mental health/bond with the baby and needs his own help. Only you and he can know which it is, but it’s worth thinking about. If he’s in a hole with his job that he can’t see out of, that needs help too.

In terms of what support he gives over night, again it sounds like you need a plan that makes it feel more manageable for both of you. Does he sleep in a spare room so he’s getting a good undisturbed block in the middle of the night? If the baby is waking him too, even if he’s not ‘on duty’ it’s probably making him feel less willing to help because he’s also tired. Instead, I found it better to set a time when DH took over. It was 4am when things were very bad and 5am when they were better. Any wake after that, I’d feed and then take DC into DH who would hold them for another hour or two.

Your current set up sounds unsustainable, and if you don’t get a handle on it together, resentment will set in which will put paid to any second baby plans because your relationship won’t be strong enough anyway. Take some time in the day for a crisis meeting. Agree you both want a solution and work together to find one.

His response to that will tell you a lot about whether you’ve married a genuine partner or not.

Just because he works doesn't mean he gets to let you deal with all of it. You cannot survive on such little sleep. He has to take some of the responsibility.
Surely he's doing all it of a Friday and Saturday night?! If not, why not?
Even during the week he can help.
Don't contemplate another baby with a man who will not look after the child he has.
The adoption comment is unacceptable. Talk to him about it again, when he's calm.
He sounds an awful dad and husband.

First post nails it! He absolutely should be doing nights for the reasons stated by this poster.

He sounds very detached from the baby and from your position/feelings/problems. I don’t want to talk about him, I’m sure many people have said the right things already.

What I did want to say is please just know this is temporary. One night, she will just sleep for a huge chunk of time out of nowhere. This is hard on you but developmentally normal. I hope you both are safe and well. I suggest baby groups/classes/rhyme time where you can talk to other parents. It always helps to hear others are in the same boat with tiny babies!

So he didn't want children.
He's not coping very well with this one.
You're not coping very well.
But you want to persuade him to have another baby??

That's a crazy idea, you definitely do not need another baby.

As for the sleep, it's almost half term.
Plan now to sleep train when your OH can be on board to help.

It’s horrible to be so sleep deprived I remember it and it was 15 years ago for me. DH did nothing but growl at me if he was disturbed in the night.

You are meeting your dd’s developmentally
normal needs and you will get through this knowing you did it alone. You are strong and capable and baby will eventually sleep better and you will recover.

How I approached this in case it helps -

I gave DH the baby and a bottle to feed about 7pm and I ran around doing jobs - this gave me a break from baby duty - but if I were doing it again I would get a bath or shower and concentrate on a few minutes peace!

I rebranded nights as my time to ‘baby moon’ without any other responsibilities than to feed and gaze at baby - I think this is useful and not as woo as it might sound because mindset is helpful

Anyway, now as a mid 50s woman mother of teens how to tell you a little bit about what I have learnt and some other other suggestions that I wish I’d considered and I appreciate some of my comments below will be controversial. I do think that high expectations placed in the wrong places are contributing to the stress of new mothers and should be set aside for our/your own protection

One - lower your standards to fed and hygienic for yourself and baby and pets and house. Stuff instagram ;)
Two - think about how to meet your basic needs and how you can prioritise these, sleep really is one of those, for example take baby a walk in the pram and while she naps in the pram for five minutes, you can have a power nap on the sofa- really don’t get distracted by scrolling or doing jobs the sleep is more important. I honestly think in my experience men are generally better at being self serving and prioritising themselves and women need to get a lot better at this although of course we are often left making sure all bases are covered while they prioritise themselves.
Three - it’s best to assume DH can’t help rather than won’t help, alienating him is not going to bring any benefit considered that he’s having his own sort of postnatal depression given his comments last night. This is not letting him off the hook this is protecting yourself from the disappointment!
Four - find someone who wants to help you, who understands. if you have any trusted adults in your life who can watch baby for a couple of hours in the afternoon while you nap then please remember most people are very happy to baby cuddle and entertain and will be glad to help. This might even be your retired neighbour or working with another Mum from baby group to alternate.
Five- divide and conquer! So honestly it is best to forget about DH helping here. He is not ready to think how he can help. This problem is more urgent than waiting for him to contribute or to catch up with the fact that he is now a parent . When things settle down he may take on bath and bed routine meanwhile maybe see if he can take on a routine daytime task or two permanently including all the associated mental labour e.g. all washing, drying and ironing or all meal planning shopping and cooking or cleaning and gardening the key being that he takes the entire task including a mental load and the tidying up after.

Sending love and understanding

I'm a teacher and I can honestly say that there is no way I could handle 5 or 6 classes of 32 difficult 15 year olds on rotation for a full day on limited sleep. They eat you alive even when you've got all your faculties about you. I understand it's hard. But him going off sick or being put on capability will do your family no good.

The fact that he was good when he was on paternity leave demonstrates that he's capable of being an OK bloke, so by all means tell him he must be on duty for at least one weekend night (Friday or Saturday) when he hasn't got to face the heaving unruly masses of kids. And get him to have the baby for a full day while you sleep too.

However, the adoption comment was unnecessary. I agree with others, don't have another baby with a man who clearly doesn't love your child or value your family.

My husband is a teacher and he never once used it as a reason to not get up in the night. I always go easy on things said at 2am - if he misunderstood you it was likely a trigger response - but i'd definitely mention that it was not acceptable.

I think at around that age, sleep with my first got especially crap. We alternated the night wakes so we were both getting some rest.

I don't have anything to add that others haven't already said - you are doing your best and getting help from the GP is a massive step!

You are not a shit mum, you are an unsupported one who feels out of her depth and alone. This is a tough period at the best of times but when faced with a lacking partner who refuses to help I can see how it would quickly become unbearable. He should do the nights on his non-working days as an absolute minimum but I’m unsure how you can force someone to get up when they have no inclination to help.

Gently op, what do you see in this man? He watches you emotionally distressed night after night and refuses to offer any support then tells you he would have his own dc adopted if you weren’t here to do the grunt work. If you weren’t in such a vulnerable place you would see this for what it is. Do you have anyone you can speak to op? Because you need every bit of support you can get right now and it isn’t going to come from him.

As a mum who is also a teacher - he’s ridiculous.
He can do a shift in the night so you get a few hours unbroken sleep, he’s absolutely using his job as a get out of jail free card. He can have an extra coffee and crack on.

Sounds like you are both really struggling tbh. You are sleep deprived, feeling unsupported and the GP may well say there is PND at play too. Sounds like he was a bit ambivalent about having a child but went along with it for you, assuming you'd do all the hard stuff. He clearly hadn't thought through what would happen if you couldn't look after your DC and it fell on him.

Chronic sleep deprivation makes literally everything harder and yes sometimes things get said at 2 AM. I'd try not to focus on that for now unless he says it again in the daytime.

Ugh. He has shown you who he is op. Do not have another child with this man - utterly unfair on all concerned.

Lots of great advice in here but I agree with cranial osteopathy. When my DD had it (at four months) you could literally see the relief on her face/body - and her sleeping improved instantly. Good luck OP

Firstly, you are not a shit mum, you’re an exhausted mum with a shit husband!
Secondly, he’s a teacher, not a bloody brain surgeon! Countless female teachers have to manage! He’s just choosing to leave it all to you.
His attitude is quite honestly very disturbing. He could be taking the baby from 8pm ish to give you a chunk of early sleep and there is no reason why he can’t do night wakings on a Friday and Saturday when he doesn’t have work the next day. If he cared a jot about you, that would be the absolute minimum that he should be doing to support you.

My husband and I resuscitate people for a living. Including children. We work nights, weekends, school holidays, Christmas Day. Neither of us has ever, ever worked a 40 hour week.

We get up with our children.

Maybe your husband works harder, for longer, under more stress than we do……maybe.

I am asking this as a genuine question. Does he have to do prep for teaching or marking of work in the evening, because that would affect how he performs his work.

You will get advice and scary stories of (my child didn't sleep until 5 sort of thing). On the whole kids do go to sleep but you have to nudge them along to it.
Basically think of sleep having three components: falling asleep on your own, staying asleep when your sleep cycle ends and putting yourself back to sleep if you wake up. Even as adults we are not always good at these things so your 5 month old is trying to learn these skills.

If you think of these as skills you have to teach then it will take the pressure off you a little bit. And these are skills for life. Not for 6 months. I know people who sleep trained at 6 months and it was great and now at 9, their kid faffs till 9 pm and refuses to go to sleep.

So there are many ways to getting there but independent falling asleep can involve: feeding, then taking the milk away then patting, then reducing the patting, and so on. There are no 3 day solutions to this. Then with staying asleep, essentially you repeat what you did when they fell asleep but with less support each time. And finally putting them back to sleep- again this depends on the age of your child. At 5 you can be reasonably sure they are not hungry, at 5 months less so.

And each of these skills have to be taught separately, and sometimes re-taught after a developmental leap.

DH advice to follow separately...

He should do Friday and Saturday nights to allow you to catch up on your sleep.

When you feel refreshed have a chat with him about whether he was being genuine in what he said about adoption. This suggests a failure to bond.

Hopefully doing all weekend night feedings will help him bond.

OP’s husband is a waste of space. He can and must do some of the night wakings, he isn’t a surgeon or pilot so if he is tired he can cope like any other adult.

He's being a shit husband and a father. We have all said terrible things in the depths of sleep deprivation (there are plenty of MN threads about women regretting their baby). But this man's life has barely changed. I don't care how busy his work is- everyone's work is busy, he does not get to opt out of fatherhood. I think you should make that clear to him.

If we see motherhood as a full time job, then everything ELSE needs to be shared so motherhood does not involve cooking and cleaning for adults, or running the household alone. Motherhood is looking after a small needy baby and fitting these jobs in and around that WHEN possible. And there are days when it is not possible. And motherhood or maternity leave comes with no toilet breaks, lunch breaks, or defined hours. It is a 24/7 job. So your job is MUCH harder than his. And if he argues it is not, ask him if he would like to swap jobs? I bet he wouldnt.

So no, don't have another baby with him at all. But ask when YOU get downtime and book it in. Say you go for yoga/walk/time at a coffee shop for 2 hours in the evening. Book in time off for yourself on weekends. And hold him to it. Maybe he won't do as good a job as you- but do not back down. He has to learn how to look after his own child. Do not criticise unless he's done something harmful, just repeatedly ensure that you walk away at designated times and leave him with the baby, and minimal instructions and let him figure it out.

Can you go to bed early and sleep .DH go to bed say midnight ,then you are on call.Also what about weekends ? Can he do Saturday/Sunday at all.I appreciate hes tired from teaching but he needs to step up .You must be exhausted !

It’s a weird comment but people say all sorts of shit when it’s 2am and they are tired and overwhelmed.

But - he does sound like a huge drip. He doesn’t have a uniquely difficult or stressful job. He absolutely can do more at home. I don’t agree with others that waking up multiple times at 6 months is standard. It’s not completely abnormal but it’s on the excessive side. When you have a frequent walker you are always “on” and so the sleep you do get can be low quality. Exhaustion makes everything so much harder. You need more sleep.

Do you bottle feed? If so I would suggest a much earlier bedtime for you - about 6pm. DH does the bottle at 7pm ish then baby’s bedtime and then wakes her at 11pm if she hasn’t already woken and gives her another feed. He then settles her and puts her down asleep in the room you are sleeping in before midnight and goes to bed in a different room - by which time you have had 6hours when you are off duty and hopefully your brain will let you relax. Then you are “on” for any wakings and dh can get 6+ hours sleep - more at weekends and holidays. It’s a bit shit because you lose time together but if the time together is just crying with exhaustion and talking about adoption then it’s no loss.

If you are breastfeeding it’s trickier but you can do the bedtime feed at 6-7pm. Dh looks after baby until 11 while you sleep then you take over - you will be in bed for 11 hours and should manage 6+ hours sleep. If you are in bed 10pm - 6am there is physically not enough time to get enough sleep.

I don't suppose your husband does anything else to help does he? Washing, cooking, cleaning? Did he before the baby arrived?

As you are combi-feeding he has no excuse at all not to share some of the night feeds. He can at least take the late night one so that you can go to bed early and sleep before waking in the small hours to do the next one.

As baby is 5 months, she must have been around for Feb half term and Easter holidays - he should at least have stepped up for those. Most Dads will share the whole time, even if they have super stressful jobs. I know mine did.

I am glad you are getting help from the GP. Once you have seen him, could you and the baby go and stay with your parents for a week or two. It might give you a chance for a bit of rest. And then I think you do need aa conversation with your husband over his attitude towards the baby. It is a very unusual response to say that you would put your own child up for adoption without there being very real issues.