School car crash - are the police being thrown under the bus?

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15732723/Police-biased-female-killed-girls-crash-Wimbledon.html

I remember starting a thread on this some time ago and I think the general conclusion was that epilepsy (undiagnised) would in all likelihood be the reason for this tragedy given the cirumstances. there was a long discussion about the nature of this consition.

There was also the feeling that the parents should grieve and let go after this tragedy yet it appears the thing has escalated to involve racism and questioning of the investigation resulting to my mind the police being pressured to make another arrest simply because the senior met didn't like the optics of this rather than material change in circusrance.

Are those investigating officers being thrown.under the bus because the met politically would like to see something done here with a rich white woman being talked when there seems to be no evidence at all she didn't have a seizure? If it realistically can't be proven a seizure didn't occur aren't we headed for a painful trial for the parents where they gain will feel justice won't be done???

Jailed above

If she had epilepsy she should not have been driving! From what I understand this woman still continues to drive her Range Rover in that area taunting the poor families. And I read that she had an epileptic seizure less than a year before the accident which means she should not have been driving at all!! The fact that she continues to drive just shows that (a) either it wasn't epilepsy or (b) police don't care because she is rich and has fancy lawyers. Those poor poor parents!

I heard on Times Radio yesterday that this was her first seizure and had no previous symptoms. Is this not the case? DH was talking towards the end of the report so I might have missed it.

We don't yet know enough detail to comment. If for example the driver was not tested for drugs/ alcohol at the time, and if her phone was not examined to see if she had in fact been using that at the time, then it's likely that the police have failed in their duty. The same applies to any consideration that was/ should have been given to evidence of the demeanour of the driver in the immediate aftermath.

If the account given of a " first ever" epileptic episode was believed, without further examination of this, or checking for arguably more likely causes of a lapse of attention whilst driving, then the criticism would be justified.

I agree that if simple police procedures hadn't been followed such as looking at a mobile phone or lack of drug testing/brsathylsing and been missed these would have been serious errors. However there was no suggestion that these errors occurred as the police officers would have been investigated a lot earlier for dereliction of duty and I am sure the parents would have commented on the lack of basic investigation . There was no evidence of speeding and the driving conditions were good.

Epilepsy an be undiagnosed and nothing has come out about a known history of epilepsy as surely Mrs Fremantle would have been arrested earlier? If this is brought to court the jury are to my mind going to be presented by neurologist expert witnesses and would have to somehow question very complex science to somehow reach a verdict that beyond reasonable doubt that there was dangerous driving i.e. no seizure. I can't see how a jury could draw that conclusion of that is what the prosecution case would rely on.

The GPS to my mind don't want to take this on as it would be a waste of court time and money without realistic prospect of conviction and would just expose Mrs Fremantle to more distress when she probably tortures herself about this on a daily basis. It just feels like a vendetta where the parents just want to see a woman jailed no matter the circumstances of the tragedy.

So if your primary-aged kids get run over, you'd just take the driver's word for it that they had an unknown medical episode for which there is zero evidence? This woman continues to drive as far as I'm aware. If it was epilepsy she wouldn't be allowed to drive for 3 years at least.

"The GPS to my mind don't want to take this on as it would be a waste of court time and money without realistic prospect of conviction and would just expose Mrs Fremantle to more distress when she probably tortures herself about this on a daily basis. It just feels like a vendetta where the parents just want to see a woman jailed no matter the circumstances of the tragedy."

Are you for real with that last paragraph?! Exposing her to more distress? What about the parents distress at knowing she's free whilst their kids lives were ended, as for the vendetta comment it just reveals who you are, that fact that you see the parents pursuit for justice like this. You clearly relate more to the driver than the parents says alot.

OP are you Mrs Freemantal?

The point is that it was undiagnosed epilepsy and a first known episode which can happen. How could this be disproven in court if a neurologist took to the stand and said this is a possibility....hence the CPS being reluctant to take action.

There just seems to be a fixated attempt to prove the epilepsy diagnosis wrong by the parents who maybe due to brief want to see someone jailed. I understand the passion of the parents but it doesn't seem right to continue on a path of what seems more like revenge than justice.

It's a tragic case but I don't see how it benefits anyone to keep pursuing a case where it most likely can't be proven. Dragging in racism and aspersions that the wealthy instantly evade justice aren't helpful imho.

Surely though you can see a mob mentality emerging where people just want to see this woman jailed despite any defence because it is simply so tragic to our minds when innocent children die there has to be guilt. The parents pain is not going to go away if there is a miscarriage of justice brought about by sustained campaining. Vendetta was a strong works but the parents have obviously decided on the the driver's guilt and in their minds have dismissed epilepsy as a defence without thoguht.

Of course driver and police officers shouldn’t be persecuted because of someone’s grief. But I don’t see how you can know enough about this investigation to err on the side of this being the case.

The most anyone not involved in this can do is hope that the investigation has been carried out diligently and both families and driver treated with fairness. I wouldn’t want accusations of racism to be dismissed any more than the driver to be scapegoated.

I do think there is something in that this woman is wealthy and on the face of it the police took her word (and the word of her VERY expensive lawyers) that she’d had an epileptic fit. I can well imagine the investigation was surface level. Look at the chap who drove into people in Liverpool - no one died - but he was arrested straight away and imprisoned. This woman killed 2 little girls and injured many others. I don’t believe the parents have had any form of justice. And if it were my child I wouldn’t rest either. I think she has used her privilege to avoid punishment. Some sources suggest she’d had epilepsy before in which case she shouldn’t have been driving. I know someone who had a fit of unknown cause not had one before or since but has been told he can’t drive for at least a year.

There are rare but documented cases of this type of tragedy occurring before and indeed epilepsy charities have highlighted the dangers of epilepsy and driving.

https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/news/wimbledon-crash-investigation-outcome-driving-rules

The CPS initially were quite happy with the finding of undiagnosed epilepsy and decided not to bring charges. More information may come to light obviously but it does seem that there is a demand for justice no matter the findings of any investigation which is worrying. There is a sense of heightened injustice due to the driver's wealth but surely this has to be put aside when considering such a case...(.I would say one point is whether such heavy vehicles should be legal).

No. Epilepsy has to be controlled for a year and then you can drive. If she’s on the right medication and had no further episodes in a year, she’d be allowed to drive.

The police have investigated, will have been presented with medical evidence, will have assessed that this was most likely a tragic accident, and that’s all they can do. While the parents are unhappy - and indeed it would be devastating for them - without actual evidence to the contrary there’s no justification for the police to continue. Eventually it just becomes a witch hunt.

This is a fundamental point, if she is indeed still driving then something stinks

Is she replying un previously undiagnosed epilepsy?

If it was sudden undiagnosed epilepsy that caused the driver to cross the road, go up a pavement, through a fence at some considerable speed, why was she not given a brain scan immediately in the aftermath.
I believe she was taken to St George's hospital straight after the incident but released very quickly.

Unless I missed something, no mention was made of any form of diagnostic tests or any other tests that might have ruled epilepsy in or out.
If they were my children I would fight to have every single possible piece of evidence examined before accepting that it was an accident.

Because brain scans aren’t actually helpful for diagnosis here. It would only be helpful if the brain was actually damaged.

I have actually seen someone have a one off fit, that never occurred again. We sent them to the neurologist who said that while they could scan their head, it probably wouldn’t help pinpoint the cause. Instead, the neurologist used their medical knowledge, applied it to the descriptions of what happened as given by witnesses, and found the likely cause was something that people often have, but that very rarely can cause a bit of a brain interruption.

Did ‘Mrs Freemantle’ instruct you to change the online opinion about her or do you generally go to great lengths to defend rich white women online?

She should have been charged. If she wanted to run the epilepsy defence then that’s her choice to do so. If a jury found her not guilty then that’s the criminal justice system doing its job.

It looks like 11 police officers have been investigated one of them is a very high ranking officer who wouldn’t even get involved in a RTA. So I’m glad those parents haven’t backed down. Clearly the police have massively cocked up and taken a biased approach to this.

Also - for all we know, medical tests may have occurred. It is not for the general public to hear the ins and outs of the woman’s private medical procedures.

unless there is some actual evidence to warrant reopening what the authorities deem to e a tragic accident - then the mob is just baying for blood, and that just leads to miscarriages of justice.

I think she was likely using her phone. How she can still drive is beyond me. She has no moral compass or shame. I would never be able to drive again if I had genuinely had a seizure because it could happen again…

No idea about this case but I do think those massive ‘cars’ should be banned, unless you have a special license to use them for specific purposes.

I called those cars kid killers long becore this accident.

CPS only have what the police prove to work with when deciding. The gross misconduct is likely to reveal failings that would potentially alter their decision.

Yes, poor white woman. Never mind the two dead little girls. This wasn’t a hit and run. A vehicle ploughed into a building, not any building a school where the little girls should have been safe and sound.

If she wasn’t white and rich the response to this matter would be entirely different.

there was evidence of an initial undiagnosed epileptic episode and neurologists confirmed this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4448xx4keo

I don't think witch hunt is too strong a word of we look at the lengths the parents have five too to try and relaunch this investigation and meetings with the Mayor of London does seem to suggest maybe some political down push that has resulted in this long thorough investigation suddenly being tainted with racism. I think it's time to let it lie.

I also don't like this angle that rich white people are guilty until proven innocent. I think advantage is being taken of the optics of a wealthy white woman 'walking away' from a collision that involved the deaths of poc. To my mind it looks like a tragic accident at heart.