Why do men like this woman so much and women don't?

[Pjy]

I'm interested from a kind of study of the human condition pov, it's interesting to see the different ways people respond.

She's a woman I know through a sport. She's pretty good, but not outstanding. Works hard and deserves what she achieves. She's friendly and sociable, can perhaps be a bit opinionated, but nothing extreme, much less so than some men! She's "ordinary" to look at. Not unattractive, maybe a bit plain and doesn't seem particularly interested in her appearance (a good thing in my book). She's clean and presentable, but not glamorous or interested in clothes and makeup, not the obvious type to gain male attention iyswim.

She's very popular with men. I'm not saying the fancy her (maybe they do, I don't know), but they seem to enjoy being around her, respect her ability and training in a way they don't other, sometimes more successful, women.

Women, including me, just find something a bit off about her. I can't put my finger on it, I don't dislike her, but she's not someone I want to be friends with. Some of the other women really dislike her, but also can't really explain it.

Is it as straightforward as a bit of jealousy, or something else?

You do dislike her you probably think she is a "pick me girl" or some sort of nonsense and you are all envious of the attention she is getting, grow up honestly you sound silly.

If she's not actually done anything that anyone can articulate then yes, it may well be either jealousy or being judgemental.

The way you describe her makes it sound like you think she's not pretty or successful enough to deserve being popular with men, and maybe she does things you dont know about to make them like her.

There is nothing here to explain it, so I’m guessing it’s something that you’re not mentioning or that you’re not picking up on that others do.

I do know a couple of women who tell us they get on better with men than women and they aren’t women I like. The reason why they get on better with men is because they make more effort to speak to men and not much effort with women. Maybe something like that.

Is it really you OP 🤔

That's just your opinion on her looks.

Perhaps others disagree.

Deep rooted internalised biological misogyny? Not at all conscious

ie. Deep down thinking that the woman’s biological role is to attract men to further the species so when that’s blocked an unintentional competition arises for the best men/sperm

I remember Morris doing a documentary about this, groundbreaking 20 years ago, mainstream now.

You are NOT intentionally thinking this so don’t beat yourself up, recognise the prejudice and deliberately take steps to overcome it

Sex appeal doesn't always cone down to classic good looks.

Is she very, very comfortable / confident in her skin and comes across as not needing female friendships? Could that be it?

@ohtobethin I think you’ve nailed it👌🏻

Ha! I am like this, have been my whole life. I hated being a teenage girl, because I am not very feminine coded and frankly lots of girls were horrible to me, probably because there was something “off” about me. I did a lot of sport and had girl friends from sports clubs and got on well with the men where ever I went.

I find the same on the school run tbh - the alpha mums seem to dislike me (live in a leafy area so there are a lot of fancier mums than me!) before getting to know me and realising I am not so bad and that my kids are brilliant, fun and well behaved so easy play dates. I get on really well with the nannies (who are doing their job and don’t get involved in the heirarchies) and the dads on the school run and I do have a small circle of female friends, but I’m better in small groups than big ones where there is a lot more coding that I struggle with! I think I am probably autistic but good at masking - men are just not sensitive to someone being a bit off in the way that women are. Personally, I am quite straight talking (not rude or opinionated, just honest), I joke and laugh a lot and so maybe men find me easy to approach because I am very easy company and there is no agenda - maybe I am more male coded?!

I’m honestly not sure what it is - do women look down on me for not having nicer clothes, or do they thing that maybe I am signalling that the fact they are interested in that stuff and I am not is a rejection of their skills and interests (I honestly don’t care - I’d rather be out running than shopping and I think I’d need a stylist to help me to put a wardrobe together if I were to try to fit in all the time - if anything, I admire the skill and will always say when someone is wearing a lovely outfit etc, it’s just not a priority for me because I’d have to work so hard at it and I don’t find it inherently pleasurable, so I tend to dress up for special occasions. My husband is totally happy with this btw - I do have nice underwear on under my sometimes scruffy clothes 😂).

Try not to dislike this woman - she seems nice and maybe she has struggled with female dislike in the past more than you know. I do pick up on it, I just care less than I did!

Is it perhaps that she shows dedication to training and practicing her sport? Maybe she has a very strict training schedule or works really hard to be good - I've found that men often admire those who suspend normal life in order to put their all into their chosen hobby. And women who aren't able to do the same can feel resentful that someone can (for example) go off on training weekends without having to worry about kids or elderly relatives?

I knew it was going to be difficult explain, but it's not that I dont think she's deserving, not at all. It's good to see men respecting her ability etc for a change, it's just that that's not what they usually do!

No, even the men say that she's plain. So even though they like her, they're not particularly nice about her.

Fwiw, I'm very plain and have never wanted to be anything else.

I'm not sure what's 'off' as you can't put your finger on it.

I think there's reasons why women can get on better with men, mostly that they feel more comfortable around men for various reasons.

My DD has 2 brothers, a Dad, and I'm probably a more 'masculine' woman. She definitely feels more comfortable around boys! I grew up with a sister so I'm fairly even in who I make effort with, but I'm much more naturally comfortable with men. I find them less judgy, less obsessed with what they eat, less sensitive, more similar sense of humour to me etc. Of course I'm generalising but this is just true of many of the couples I know. I have to make more effort with the women.

So perhaps she just finds hanging out with the men easier. Maybe she has 5 brothers! Maybe you guys are all judgy of her and she senses it? Who knows?

Yes, I agree but I don't think it's that either. She does train well, but she's by no means the hardest working or most accomplished in our circle.

Why are you discussing this woman's looks with the men?

She sounds like 'one of the lads'. I've known lots of women like that over the years and they are popular with men. No female artifice, just get on with things like a bloke would, unthreatening, uncomplicated, unflirty, not seeking the male gaze. I think men feel relaxed around women like that and enjoy their company.

She sounds like easy company and someone who doesn’t over think things.
Men usually prefer that type to bitches which you and your friends obviously are!

Because they talk about her, including her looks, all the time! I wouldn't dream of raising how any woman looks with anyone.

The baffling stuff here is less this woman, than that you appear to have gone around doing a survey of make and female attitudes towards her, if you claim the men say she’s plain, and women find something off about her! Why would you do this?

But where is this woman when you’re standing around with the men, getting stuck into a discussion of her looks??

Because men like women with a good personality, who don’t rely on their looks and have an opinion.

Unfortunately women don’t respect these qualities in other women.

What do you say to them when they’re calling her plain? I can’t understand the sort of conversations you’re having with them where they’d say that, can you elaborate?

No. It really isn't that. It's that her name comes up in conversation all the time.

I don't know her very well at all. She wouldn't cross my mind from one week to the next, but it's impossible to sit down for coffee without one of the men bringing her up.

Well you raised it here?