Why do men like this woman so much and women don't?

[Pjy]

I'm interested from a kind of study of the human condition pov, it's interesting to see the different ways people respond.

She's a woman I know through a sport. She's pretty good, but not outstanding. Works hard and deserves what she achieves. She's friendly and sociable, can perhaps be a bit opinionated, but nothing extreme, much less so than some men! She's "ordinary" to look at. Not unattractive, maybe a bit plain and doesn't seem particularly interested in her appearance (a good thing in my book). She's clean and presentable, but not glamorous or interested in clothes and makeup, not the obvious type to gain male attention iyswim.

She's very popular with men. I'm not saying the fancy her (maybe they do, I don't know), but they seem to enjoy being around her, respect her ability and training in a way they don't other, sometimes more successful, women.

Women, including me, just find something a bit off about her. I can't put my finger on it, I don't dislike her, but she's not someone I want to be friends with. Some of the other women really dislike her, but also can't really explain it.

Is it as straightforward as a bit of jealousy, or something else?

Wow. I don’t like using the word but how bitchy are you?

Thank you for the fedback.

Fwiw I think you genuinely sound like a fab person

Thank you thats really kind of you to say so.
Same right back to you stay fabulous.

Agree

The post you were replying to said "Because men like women with a good personality, who don’t rely on their looks and have an opinion". You disagreed, and claimed that "most men were quite basic - i.e. they are visual creatures."

Based on the drip-feed of information from the OP, these men like this woman despite her allegedly not being particularly good-looking. So your claim doesn't hold up.

I've probably been like this woman. Not especially girly. Have never worn much if any make up. Some women I'm sure would consider me plain. Been sporty most of my life. Not felt the need to comply with female social norms. Happier (in my day when I drank) drinking pints with the lads and talking shit. Really happy watching rugby (still am) and can explain the offside law in rugby not just in football lol... (It's a real challenge in rugby.)

Two male friends admitted later in life that they had crushes on me in my teens and 20s. I was flattered but genuinely didn't see it at the time. I'm not especially attractive IMO, but I'm probably a lot less complicated than some women they encountered back in the day.

I see the female and male social norms playing out now with my son. Boys fall out and make up the same day. Girls fall out and are still holding a grudge a year later. It's so exhausting.

So women who don't go in for all that might seem more attractive to some men along with liking other things they might like.

Of course there are girls out there who pretend to like all that stuff just to be around men. Which is even more exhausting for everyone involved. But for me and others (and I suspect this woman), it's just about who I am. If some people don't like that I think "get a bloody life". I can't imagine that you take up as much space in her head as she is in yours.

Is anyone else feeling like this supposed dichotomy between 'down to earth, blokey woman' and 'flirty, girly woman' is bullshit?

I used to wear makeup, did my hair & nails, didn't look too bad, and had many good friends of both sexes. Was definitely an 'honorary man' in majority male situations. None of those men ever made the slightest move on me - though there was plenty of hugging - and none of their WAGs had a problem with me.

I don't claim to be special, because I'm not. There were and are loads of women who feel no need to act according to gender stereotypes. I tend to distrust those who do, especially women that say they don't get along with women.

so why do you distrust women who don’t get a long with groups of women (I have only seen groups of women mentioned on here rather than individual ones. Except the poor woman mentioned in the OP. I think the dynamic which is present in most female only groups is not welcoming or navigable for many audhd women esp - so are you saying you don’t trust audhd women?

No, it's about how they perceive other women. Someone with an ND can be a bit clunky but a good friend. Another woman with the same ND can be all 'not like the other girls', making gendered assumptions about half the human race (or both halves). She can fuck off.

My claim absolutely holds up as most of OP's posts are littered with recaps on the remarks these men have made a out her looks. They obviously think it's relevant even if you don't!

About not "out".

To be fair I never wanted to be picked...I just wanted to get out of PE and sit in the library with a book 🤣

Bit honestly I have a p/t job at a sports facility now and when the netballers rock up in their droves I still want to hide.

Yes, there's a lot of serious black and white stereotyping of women by this PP. I have several independent groups of female friends and they do NOT at all fit the mould she is describing - bitchy prides headed by top lionesses that are cowtowed to by other women because then they get the best guys by association 🤯

In high school, one or two groups of girls did work a bit like that, I encountered it too. But other groups of girls definitely didn't. And much of this shit stops in adulthood. It's not OK to stereotype all adult female groups like this, because it's simply not true. It's immature and internalised misogyny.

If anything, exclusionary tribal behaviour is more common in men.

Most of the girls didn't want to be picked, they just had to join in the humiliating ritual of not being wanted. Even back then, I thought it was cruel, and I know some women never managed to get over that feeling of being rejected.
It's decades ago now, but I can still remember the name of the girl who would always be the last one to be chosen.
I am no saint, but I did sometimes pick her just to save her feelings.

it wasn’t a personal rejection, it’s how competition works!

What perhaps had passed you by, is that every one of the girls who did sports in a club and would have had exactly the same experience at some level from a much younger age, and would have been told to “just run faster” if they wanted to make the relay team. The emotional mollycoddling you are describing just wouldn’t happen.

I’m not saying they didn’t feel the rejection but I am saying it was hopelessly misplaced.

Tell that to a 13 year old kid.

It's not emotional mollycoddling to just divide the kids up randomly in teams for PE. Proper competition, yeah, you need to try out. Wednesday morning 45 minute PE lesson? Just do "one, two, one, two".

It was awful and totally unnecessary. I was always crap at sport (though fit and active) but I remember being glad I wasn't fat because it meant I was never among the very last kids to be picked, just the low end of the middle. Horrible.

Is she perhaps autistic? Being ‘a bit off but I can’t quite put my finger on it but we all don’t like her for it anyway’ is a classic description of autism in women.