Why do men like this woman so much and women don't?

[Pjy]

I'm interested from a kind of study of the human condition pov, it's interesting to see the different ways people respond.

She's a woman I know through a sport. She's pretty good, but not outstanding. Works hard and deserves what she achieves. She's friendly and sociable, can perhaps be a bit opinionated, but nothing extreme, much less so than some men! She's "ordinary" to look at. Not unattractive, maybe a bit plain and doesn't seem particularly interested in her appearance (a good thing in my book). She's clean and presentable, but not glamorous or interested in clothes and makeup, not the obvious type to gain male attention iyswim.

She's very popular with men. I'm not saying the fancy her (maybe they do, I don't know), but they seem to enjoy being around her, respect her ability and training in a way they don't other, sometimes more successful, women.

Women, including me, just find something a bit off about her. I can't put my finger on it, I don't dislike her, but she's not someone I want to be friends with. Some of the other women really dislike her, but also can't really explain it.

Is it as straightforward as a bit of jealousy, or something else?

Nothing you've described seems like it would attract an unusual level of jealousy; it sounds like she's well enough off in various ways but not someone who would really make the average person stop and think "damn, I wish I had that!" You did mention that she participates in a mixed sex group and is overall noticeably friendlier with the male participants than the female ones AND that the men in the group aren't very respectful of the other women specifically. Could it be that some of the other women resent the men's perceived general disdain toward women and instead of (or as well as) blaming them directly they are displacing the blame onto her, maybe some unconscious bias that "as a woman" SHE should know better?

A lot probably depends on (1) whether the group is completely opt-in with other options available versus the women being forced to put up with the men if they want to do a certain activity and (2) if the woman you describe seems to be actively avoiding connections with the other women in the group because they are women, versus it just working out that she happens to be friendliest with some of the individual men.

Ha ha, nice try. But I don’t need men to pick me for many reasons. interestingly I think the term “pick me culture” is now being used by women as a gaslighting tactic as a way to try and discredit women who can’t be arsed with the crap that usually comes from the usual women’s friendship groups, ironically nearly always headed by the true “pick me” women😂.

@HortiGal same here and I'm so glad that my DD and her circle seem to want to uplift other women. I thought we left this bullshit in the 90s and 00s when we were actively encouraged to judge other girls.

Sadly, apparently not.

Why is not being particularly interested in her appearance a good thing? Not being bothered about makeup or clothing doesn’t make you more worthy than people who do care about those things. Lots of amazing people wear make up and care about their appearance and lots of awful people make no effort at all with their appearance. It’s not one or the other.

But anyway…my dd is like this woman…gets on well with boys in a way her female friends don’t. She’s actually been told by some girls that they don’t understand why all the boys like dd so much because they wear makeup/have bigger boobs/bum/prettier than dd. But it all comes down to inner confidence, a sense of humour, talking to the boys the same way she talks to the girls, and being happy in her own skin. And I think this woman sounds similar…she’s confident and doesn’t need validation from others. People pick up on that level of self-assuredness even at a subconscious level. Confidence and positivity are always attractive traits.

From what I hear and understand it's for women who make their entire personality shitting on other women and being so quirky and different, women who, for example, refer to groups of women as vacuous and bitchy.

So yeah, I think it fits.

I'd say this is a winning combination:
Works hard and deserves what she achieves
Friendly and sociable
"Can perhaps be a bit opinionated, but nothing extreme" = knows her own mind, without being overbearing
Doesn't seem particularly interested in her appearance
Not "glamorous" or interested in clothes and makeup

Might be a breath of fresh air compared with many!

Firstly, the sports club sounds awful. People judging and bitching behind this woman’s back. Men remarking on her looks (which TBF you have challenged, OP). Good grief!

How do you know they don’t bitch about you behind your back, OP?

As for feeling there’s something ‘off’ about her, it’s the old graphic of someone’s life (huge) and what we know about it (tiny). She may be a lesbian who doesn’t want to share her sexuality. She may have a hidden disability. She may’ve survived some terrible trauma she’s has to fight to overcome and doesn’t want to talk about. She may be really unconfident but getting herself out there. She may speak English as an additional language.

She may even feel shit she has to attend a club full of judgemental and misogynistic people.

Or she may be a conwoman looking for her next victim.

Who cares? If she’s nice, friendliness and kindness costs nothing. You don’t have to be her best mate or give her the code to your safe.

There was a woman that all the men fancied in our newsroom when I was young. She wasn’t especially pretty but she was nice, fun, wore really stylish clothes (not fancy, just stuff that really suited her) and had a lovely figure. She married the boss. There was another woman who all the women thought was beautiful, but the men didn’t. I don’t think you can really put your finger on it, some people are just appealing to the opposite sex.

I asked my husband about this once and he explained a huge misconception women have is that men go for looks alone. He said the most attractive trait is confidence even if a woman is only average in looks if she is confident in herself, that is very attractive. He szyd too many domem spend too long trying to make thenselves look pretty. Is this woman particularly outgoing? Men like that, whereas women tend to look down on women who are confident and outspoken.

lol, maybe I am quirky by I’m diagnosed autistic and adhd. Every group of women I come across as groups of women tend to be like this, it’s the way they dynamics work and seems to be reflected in the group of women the OP is taking about don’t you think, interestingly the vacuous and bitchy element is a group phenomenon rather than individual one. Which is probably reflective of how groups of women interact rather than women don’t you think. It’s quite an interesting phenomenon.

Interestingly many women on here who say they’re like this appear to be audhd, so that’s got to be food for thought.

But thanks for your confirmation about the “othering” aspect of women who don’t conform. It seems the term “pick me culture” is designed to reinforce exactly the state I was describing

This all sounds very high school. She probably doesn’t pay any attention to who likes and dislikes her, and just gets on with whoever she gets on with. I honestly can’t imagine being so insecure as to pick apart another woman like this.

I grew up with brothers and lots of male cousins, so I can get along easily with men, but equally with women. It’s about personality and not the sex of the person in question.

If I don’t gel with someone, they likely don’t with me, and it’s not something I focus on or make a big deal out of, as it’s usually not personal.

Poor woman, having her looks and athletic abilities dissected.

I was going to ask the very same question

OP is talking about a group of men.

I have ADHD and have always managed not to be deeply misogynistic and assume that every group of women are vacuous, bitchy idiots.

Funny that, huh?

Ahhh, OP answered.
In my experience men usually don't talk to women about other women's looks, especially women they like and respect.

The men in your club sound grim.

Something I noticed in your posts is that they are more complimentary of her achievements than of other more successful/talented women.

I think this could be some of the issue. Lots of men don't like being outplayed by a woman and are unkind/nasty to high achieving womenq. So they are falling over themselves to talk about how great she is "for a woman" whilst ignoring women who are better than them (and denigrating her looks).

That might in turn be creating a weird dynamic with the women in the group because she gets so much more praise from the men than other more talented women. That doesn't match the obvious ability hierarchy that you are aware of and exposes the hypocrisy and insincerity of the men.

How she looks is mostly a red herring - except that we are more used to men giving extra attention to good looking women.

On a basic animal level, does she have symmetrical features and a thin waist/wide hips?

Or is she funny/a good flirt?

Absolutely this. And it's not even necessarily about finding her attractive in a romantic way. I'm lucky enough to have a number of confident, outgoing women as friends who I have no romantic interest in but I very much enjoy the company of.

Unless they felt the need to defend themselves against accusations by the OP and the other women, of 'fancying' her.

All very childish.

Yeah, this. I've never called another woman plain. Not even someone I dislike. Nor have I surveyed everyone I knew of either sex encouraging them to also rate her as such. OP sounds pretty awful really doing this shit!

I think she is probably really easy to get on with and doesn't feel the need to be friends with the kind of people who will write things like this about her:

She's "ordinary" to look at. Not unattractive, maybe a bit plain and doesn't seem particularly interested in her appearance.......

I think it is as straightforward as a bit of envy (not jealousy) because men seem to prefer being friends with her because of her personality, whereas you would prefer them to be friends with women for reasons you can understand and quantify, like looks.

I think you’ll find it’s because she has no fucks to give. She will know that you/the other women don’t particularly like her, and yet she still has the self-respect to utterly ignore it and to plough her own furrow without asking for your permission or opinion.

The men will like her because she is her own person, whilst the women dislike her for not being willing to know her place.

No idea. You'd have to observe her a lot more closely and report back a lot more detail to give us anything to go on.
What does she talk about with the men? Do they have shared interests? Does she listen to them as though their views matter? Ask more questions that she talks? Laugh at their jokes? Is she witty or interesting?
How does she treat women? The same or different?
You are placing a big importance on her physical appearance. You'd understand if she was pretty, right? But while men do like attractive women its a bit reductive to suggest the only reason they like women is because they're attractive.

I think this too. A bit of jealousy added into the mix as it inadvertently makes others feel insecure.

OP is prob a trainee bot, trying to learn human nuance:

I'm interested from a kind of study of the human condition pov

If it’s not looks or skill then she probably has good social skills, is confident, friendly, interesting and/or funny. I find the most popular women are not always the most attractive, but they come across as being very comfortable with who they are.

I remember at school some of my friends discussing why (let’s call her) Amy was popular with boys. One big-boobed girl said she didn’t know why boys like Amy because she’s flat chested. And I thought maybe it’s because Amy is a nice person, secure in herself, and doesn’t discuss people behind their back 🤔