Why do men like this woman so much and women don't?

[Pjy]

I'm interested from a kind of study of the human condition pov, it's interesting to see the different ways people respond.

She's a woman I know through a sport. She's pretty good, but not outstanding. Works hard and deserves what she achieves. She's friendly and sociable, can perhaps be a bit opinionated, but nothing extreme, much less so than some men! She's "ordinary" to look at. Not unattractive, maybe a bit plain and doesn't seem particularly interested in her appearance (a good thing in my book). She's clean and presentable, but not glamorous or interested in clothes and makeup, not the obvious type to gain male attention iyswim.

She's very popular with men. I'm not saying the fancy her (maybe they do, I don't know), but they seem to enjoy being around her, respect her ability and training in a way they don't other, sometimes more successful, women.

Women, including me, just find something a bit off about her. I can't put my finger on it, I don't dislike her, but she's not someone I want to be friends with. Some of the other women really dislike her, but also can't really explain it.

Is it as straightforward as a bit of jealousy, or something else?

The thing is, with the OP and the other women being the way they are, this woman has no choice really other than to bond with the men.

If she didn't bond with them she'd have no-one.

Have you had a little feminist rant at yourself this morning after your 2nd paragraph in your OP nitpicking her physical appearance?

The cognitive dissonance going on is staggering.

She's clean and presentable, but not glamorous or interested in clothes and makeup, not the obvious type to gain male attention iyswim.

For this I read....Fresh faced, naturally pretty without make up, athletic figure and just all round 'effortless'

Something a few women I know would be very jealous of sadly.

Any chance she might be plain in your eyes but not through men’s eyes?

Most men I know prefer women most of us would see as “plain”.

Its impossible to define exactly what attracts men to a woman - but women who get a lot of male attention, whether they seek it or not, can be unpopular with other women.

And yet here you are, starting a thread by commenting on her looks.

Ooh you're so not like the other girls good for you.

If you're comfortable in your own skin there's absolutely no need for the digs about 'slap' and Botox or calling other women 'pick me's.

I’m fascinated by this too - I’ve noticed that women that are clearly not ‘people pleasers’ are sometimes disliked by other women -and they might not even know why. They might be wondering why other women aren’t huge fans of them… without realising that if you are genuinely comfortable with yourself then it can be quite intimidating, other people never know what you might say or do as you main goal is not to be liked but to be real. I know I get really uncomfortable around these types of women as I feel like the rules are different, I want to get along as my main goal, they just want to communicate and be true to themselves. I really admire them and wish I was less of a people pleaser but I also wouldn’t seek their friendship. My loss and my issues!

She doesn't sound "exactly like" the woman OP describes. OP specifically said she can't put her finger on why she seems off, not that she's rude to people!

I feel sorry for the woman in the OP. I know what it's like to be subtly rejected for no apparent reason by (a lot of) women, despite being friendly to all. How horrible for her that the women don't like her, for no reason she can control, whilst the men judge her looks behind her back. It's a lonely place to be.

I would suspect some kind of neurodiversity, or at least traits thereof. Subtle sense something is "off" with her although on the surface she engages normally. I hope she finds her people eventually.

Agree massively. Then you get accused of being only interested in men...

This!

You sound jealous and unpleasant to me.

I am one of those women whom you seem to distrust - I have lots of close friendships with men (some straight, some gay), not because I’m trying to get them into bed, but because I’m straightforward and fun to be around. I’m also a better listener than their male friends so tend to be confided in.

I sometimes annoy people because I don't wear make-up or the right sort of clothes. I have a lot of things that are a bit "off" - some physical tics and I am socially awkward I think. In my case men seem to dislike me more but I think that may be because I am quite actively ugly not just "plain".

People tend to get along with me fine once they've got used to my oddness.

So my guess is that she's giving off some subtle weird signs but that you're wrong about her looks and the men do fancy her.

You sound as though you'd fit right in with the OP and the other women, sadly.

I think this an insightful, compassionate post. One of the few on this thread.

Because men like women with a good personality, who don’t rely on their looks and have an opinion.

This seems like total bollocks to me - you think men don't like attractive women? Are you ugly yourself? I am and I can tell you men are much much more hostile about it than women. I have both male and female friends but men I don't know well can be absolutely awful to me.

I agree with this. I get this a lot: I’ve been accused of being “too opinionated” by women in the past but those same women have never accused the men of our acquaintance of being too anything.

A lot of women see confidence and self-esteem in another woman as a threat. I am a good person but not a people pleaser (in my mind being a people pleaser doesn’t make you a good person, it actually makes you the opposite as you won’t call out bad behaviour and will go with the loudest voice in the room).

One such example is from a few years ago when a woman of my acquaintance did not like my opinions about women’s rights because I wasn’t being an “inclusive” feminist, but had absolutely no problem in accepting favours and preferable treatment from a man we worked with who was known to exhibit highly questionable (and in one case, illegal) behaviour towards women. My opinions were unpalatable but his actual actions were okay.

There are so many women who could easily be of this type but don't have the confidence to present themselves as such. This results in caking on makeup, adding all sorts of extras such as lashes,hair extensions, false nails, fake tan, lip fillers etc. This can look attractive but its the natural beauties as youve described who have the attitude of less is more who often get more attention when men are looking for a serious relationship.

this not quite right feeling ... sometimes its because the person has female autism and misses social cues / might not respond in the exact same way as other non autistic women. Women are complicated social beings while men less so, so autistic women often gravitate towards male friends.

I know two women a bit like this.

I disliked one of them because she was the kind of person who would go out of her way to try to steal your boyfriend. I didn't trust her but most guys loved her.

The other, I liked ok but she was very hard to get to know. She didn't give the impression that she really wanted to be friends even though she was friendly enough. It was all quite superficial.

I’m very direct and I do think men like this, I have plenty of men friends as well as women friends though.

@changedglasscat I think you are very astute with your post and I would say that’s what I’m like. The women friends I do have are very straightforward non people pleasers as am I. Two of them are from Yorkshire, the home of straight talking. My own sister told me I was selfish once, it was years ago and I can't remember what it was about. Many years rolled by and she actually changed her tune and said she was in awe of how much I had done, it was when I was having a major op and she said you have done more in your 40 years than most do in a lifetime and I wish I had. She is 15 years older than me and was widowed a couple of years after and then she did start to please herself. She was so much happier.

You all both men and women sound like a bunch of judgemental arseholes. If i was this women I'd change clubs.

You know, I have a lot of flaws, but I absolutely pride myself on never being a safe space for men to stand around making comments like "she played well, but she's not much to look at" in front of me.

How utterly vile from the lot of you.

Also, I don't know how old you are but being so focused on how 'plain' she is and how 'plain' you are is just a bit pathetic.

The way you (and the men in the group) are so focused on her "plain" looks is just odd. Attractive people and ugly people tend to get noticed and commented on in my experience, plain/average folk tend not to register either way.

She sounds someone who is confident and relaxed, not high maintenance or try-too-hard or self deprecating. Perhaps men like her company because she's just easy and pleasant to be around. I know a woman like this and she's awesome, though she's noticed that most women don't like her, maybe because she's very matter of fact in an almost blokish type of way, but very naturally so, not in a "cool girl" way.

What is it that you or other women feel is "off" about her? Do you think she's not trying hard enough for approval from women/ men/both? Not playing the game with the right social niceties?

If you can't be sure what the "off" thing is, maybe it's more like what @matresense refers to. I am similar and her post rang so true for me. I am very likely on the spectrum and women seem to sense something "off" about me that makes them feel uncomfortable but men don't seem to notice. School dads would come and chat to me, whilst most of the mums would tend to avoid me. I'm not young/ beautiful/special in any obvious way and I definitely don't flirt so it isn't that. I'm ever so slightly delayed in my communications because I often need an extra second or two to work out if someone is being literal or making a joke or being sarcastic. That might be what women notice and find uncomfortable and men don't? Could it be that?

This is because they’re obsessed with her and trying to play it down!

Do you think someone who talks about someone constantly also has the opinion that they’re ’plain’.

It doesn’t sound like she’s flirty with then men and is there to do the sport - men hate that.

They would give anything for her to give them extra attention.

You are jealous because she’s not even trying and has men obsessing over her, for just being her.
Whereas maybe you’ve never had that sort of attention or you have to make an effort to have it.

Most men don’t like too much make up or fake eyelashes etc and there is something attractive about someone being good at something.
Its like if someone is a really good dancer or singer, it just makes them attractive.

The fact that she’s got a good personality, is attractive but not overly fake, doesn’t go flirting with everyone and is good at the sport they enjoy - literally makes her the perfect woman in their eyes.

I have a friend like this, she was actually my husbands friend first. In his friendship group, she was the only woman and honestly men gravitate to her. Not in a "I fancy Susie" kind of way but she's genuinely an interesting person.
She's not stereotypically attractive, quite masculine in appearance, plays rugby and is very good at it. Has travelled the world solo and has fascinating stories.
She's not a lesbian, we've met previous male partners but she has been single for the past few years and she's confident in her own company.
I really like her and without sounding cheesy, she's just a very cool person, she's not out there seeking male or female approval. Her and I have little in common but in fairness to her, she will take an interest in whatever i've been up to and vice versa but she has loads in common with the boys. Same interests and sense of humour.

I do know that some of the other guys in the friendship group, their girlfriends/wives struggle with her. Probably because she has the guys respect and she can hold her own with them lol