My parents are sleeping in chairs in the living room

[Pigeonangel]

And I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

I live very close and visit often. Always have done, am happy to. They're good company and have been fantastic parents and grandparents. When DH was terminally ill, and subsequently died, I honestly don't know how I'd have got through it without them.

That was only 5 years ago, they were there constantly for all of us, helping with house and car repairs, running errands etc. Until they hit 80 they were amazing sprightly older people who could do anything - furious at the suggestion they might be "vulnerable" during lockdown 🤣

How things change. In a matter of months they've both had health issues that mean their mobility is badly affected. Until recently it always seemed to be worse for one at a time and they're a great team so got by supporting each other, without asking or wanting much from me.

Now Mum can shuffle a bit with a frame and Dad is unable to walk at all. Last night they both slept in chairs downstairs. Mum suffles about to get food, do some cleaning and bring him a bed bottle etc. She managed to do a roast dinner for them both at the weekend, although I can't believe for a minute that would have been safe.

Mentally they are both totally with it, the house is perfectly livable (ie not dirty, if not practical), they seem OK from a personal hygiene pov, and are insisting they don't need anything from me or social services, they slept well last night and can manage.

Am I supposed to just leave it at that? I'm feeling very overwhelmed. It's just me with DH gone, my DC live away and DSis is also several 100 miles away but has lots of opinions on how Mum and Dad should behave.

I don't know what to do.

a disability badge??

If they've got a downstairs bathroom could you arrange a bed for downstairs ?? It's not unusual for older people to do that.

when my mum was becoming more infirm, I had a chat and relayed to her that itd probably be helpful if we could get someone to come have a chat and see what aids may help in the home, similar to your mums frame - she isnt against using her frame; there are other aids that could help them, a toilet frame so they can more easily sit on the loo, a bath seat so they can more easily have a shower - frame it as aids to their life rather than "someone coming in because you cant cope".

I then went on my council website and searched for adult social services and self referred for an assessment. I got a phone call, two people came round and the aids were delivered that week. They then had her on file and I could (as time progressed) ring if further assessments were needed...

I also got a stairlift, because carrying mum upstairs was not safe, them sleeping downstairs isnt sustainable, a stairlift is a good intermediate thing, they are able to safely get up and downstairs. I arranged that seperate to the social care assessment; I rang a company, they came to do a survey of the house and assess the type needed, and it was fitted that week.

Its about the framing I found, how you approach the conversation helps with very proud people.

And some people need to stop thinking they can treat their parents like naughty toddlers. Have some respect FFS.

This.

It is hard op but you have to wait it out. Be on hand, do what they want but respect their wishes. When one of them falls or is hospitalised then you get services involved.

It is stressful I know. One of our relatives needs a stairlift. Watching them struggle upstairs is horrible, but we can't force it. They will not have a stairlift!

Just do what they will let you and be kind to yourself .

Post this on the Elderly Parents forum. Seriously.

Well in my case, it was discussed that the bed needed to be moved downstairs, there was resistance but ultimately my brother/cousin helped to move the bed downstairs and it’s been downstairs since.

When there was a refusal to stop driving, it was discussed, there were heated debates and ultimately the car was sold.

It’s not easy, it’s not pleasant but it’s necessary. I have no power of attorney but I have got a relationship where I can walk into the house. As do all the family.

The alternative is as others have suggested you contact social services and raise a concern. That’s not an empty threat - you do it or you don’t. If you don’t I guess you answered your own question in your opening post you just accept them sleeping in chairs, the possibility of accidents trips or falls. At that stage you’ll then fall into the system and someone else makes the decisions.

Sleeping in a chair is not good for anyone’s health. They need urgent social service assessment plus OT

My big worry would be the stairs.
If you can make some changes now while you're ahead of things, they could keep their independence longer than if they have an accident.

We were in a similar boat with my fil. We got him a sheltered housing bungalow and it was very much to his relief as though he didn't want to admit he wasn't coping, he is now living somewhere where he can cope again.

If he had fallen on his stairs he may not have been fit and well enough for a bungalow.

I received some very good advice when we were in a similar situation.

get the help. Even if they don’t want it or think they don’t need it. Even if they don’t need it. Get the help before they need it, so when they do, they’re already used to it.

so we got mil a cleaner first. Kept on top of the house. Then we got a lady who would come once a week and take then out shopping. hated it to start, but eventually really started looking forward to visits, they would just go to garden centres, supermarket, parks for a little walk. They liked “treating” her to tea and cake, made them feel less dependent.

then we got someone to pop in two mornings a week. Initially they made tea, breakfast, had a chat, set him up with what he needed for the day Over the years it progressed to helping him out of bed, hygiene, dressing etc.

we applied for attendance allowance which paid for some. Luckily they had decent pensions which helped, but we also got social services on board so once they “needed” it a lot was covered.

it was all very “gently gently”. Once we got the cleaner though and realised how much it helped it got easier.

Your dad not being able to go to the loo is a serious problem. Otherwise, from your account I can see why they feel they are managing.

I think in your situation I would try to get a bedroom downstairs. Frame it as temporary, and perhaps, if they usually sleep together, a way for them to do that. My ILs have slept downstairs when ill or injured and when they are better, go back upstairs again! Sleeping in chairs isn’t a good idea.

I agree with pp it is wise to get them into the system even if nothing comes of it. and try to speak to them separately as well.

Re money, it may be helpful to say ‘what are you saving for? It’s your money’ etc and be crystal clear you’d be happy to see them spending it on themselves. Some older people do seem to think they should save it for a rainy day (this is the rainy day!) or for your inheritance, when you just want them to be safe and comfortable now!

Stannah chair lift , daily carer visit walk in shower and meals on wheels.

Are they sitting up in chairs? It's very risky for circulation especially for older people to not lie down to sleep. Might be good to get carers involved and think about beds downstairs.

Oh yes and I agree with @Usernamenotfound1 about the thin end of the wedge - ils’ cleaner comes five mornings a week now! And they don’t even clear the dinner things away, she does it all. They have more energy for what they want to do. They also send out bedclothes and towels to a laundry. These things give them more independence not less, but they wouldn’t have considered them off their own bat. We had to persuade them that if they wanted to do housework nobody would stop them, but the cleaner means they don’t HAVE to. Which they now v much appreciate.

FFS indeed.

I’m not talking about my parents as unfortunately one of them has terminal cancer - so our choices have been taken away as the Palliative care have decided what’s needed and it’s arranged.

However a grandmother in her 90’s (who’s now blind), and a husband with a degenerative disease added to the mix means rough decisions and difficult conversations.

Nobody’s treated like naughty children but I haven’t got the luxury of waiting for a fall before things get resolved.

Wait till they ask for help. Avoid saying 'I told you so'.

But if social services do get involved be realistic about their care needs.

Share adaptations / shortcuts you use yourself eg. Alexa, if that kind of thing is useful to them / chunky handled tin openers / pre chopped veg / referral codes for one of the meals in a box companies.

Is there anything to make the armchairs more comfortable for sleep?

You might be able to 'sell' useful things as 'to make the wait more comfortable' while the NHS is slow. They can be explicitly temporary alterations. Some pieces of equipment can be hired rather than purchased.

They are vulnerable adults.

If social services saw this then decisions would be taken out of their hands.

The dad can’t walk at all and the mum can barely walk.

She cannot manage her DH with no help and they’re both too proud to ask for it.

The only outcome with no intervention is them being miserable and struggling to cope, suffering and then one of them dying.

I would rather my parents be upset with me and pretend it was me that caused them to have to accept help, than having to watch them suffer and die.

i haven’t read the whole thread, but just to say, sleeping sitting up is really bad for your legs. People get dependent oedema, which increases risk of cellulitis and poor healing of cuts, Potentially leading to ulcers . If they really want to sleep downstairs, and refuse to have a bed, then they should have proper reclining chairs.

@Pigeonangel you need to think long term not just now. There are a lot of adaptions that can be done to their home but realistically how long before living in an unsuitable home is not just impractical but actually risky.

I agree with a pp that dividing and conquering maybe the way to achieve a long term solution. With no downstairs bathroom and your Dad using a bottle plus mobility issues I would be suggesting they try respite care. I would sell it as a temporary measure whilst they are having investigations and a rest for Mum. Almost a holiday but where they know the area. Start with two weeks and then review.

It's a bit worrying if your Dad can't move at all, he is vulnerable to skin breakdown and pressure ulcers. Could you ask someone from their Gp practice to pop in for an over 75 health check? They are going to need help soon but maybe they'll accept it better if someone else suggested this

On a practical note search out -

Care and Repair schemes in Englandassist older, disabled, or low-income homeowners in maintaining, repairing, or adapting their homes to live independently. These agencies, often funded by local authorities or charities, help access grants, find contractors, and provide handyperson services for small jobs.

Start finding out what is and isn’t available in your area.

By the sounds of it you're going to have to wait until the wheels fall off. Stubborn older-folks are a freaking nightmare. Most frustrating part is that they lie to doctors, OT and other healthcare professionals that "everything's FINE!!!" and they don't need this that and the other when you've moved heaven and earth to set it all up.

There's bugger all you can do about any of it. As you say, they're adults with capacity so they are entirely free to make the worst possible decisions.

Nightmare.

Knocking up 100 and still living independently? Wow.

MIL got into the habit of sleeping in her chair as she got older (85+) despite having a stairlift to get to bed upstairs. On reflection it coincided with a general downturn in her being able to keep up with personal hygiene (the house had started to smell). Then she started falling off her chair as she nodded off and she ended up in hospital with a serious leg wound that’s taken months of treatment to heal. That proved to be the catalyst for DH and his sister to get help to assess her needs when she came out of hospital resulting in twice daily carers (she was already receiving attendance allowance but refused to employ them previously) to ensure she’s safe in bed at night and gets quality sleep and keeps on top of her hygiene. It’s been a tough lesson but she’s much more comfortable now.

There is help available, but it is only any good if they are happy to accept it.
It is dilemma as long as they are mentally sound.
It is very hard.
I am sorry that your DH died.