My parents are sleeping in chairs in the living room

[Pigeonangel]

And I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

I live very close and visit often. Always have done, am happy to. They're good company and have been fantastic parents and grandparents. When DH was terminally ill, and subsequently died, I honestly don't know how I'd have got through it without them.

That was only 5 years ago, they were there constantly for all of us, helping with house and car repairs, running errands etc. Until they hit 80 they were amazing sprightly older people who could do anything - furious at the suggestion they might be "vulnerable" during lockdown 🤣

How things change. In a matter of months they've both had health issues that mean their mobility is badly affected. Until recently it always seemed to be worse for one at a time and they're a great team so got by supporting each other, without asking or wanting much from me.

Now Mum can shuffle a bit with a frame and Dad is unable to walk at all. Last night they both slept in chairs downstairs. Mum suffles about to get food, do some cleaning and bring him a bed bottle etc. She managed to do a roast dinner for them both at the weekend, although I can't believe for a minute that would have been safe.

Mentally they are both totally with it, the house is perfectly livable (ie not dirty, if not practical), they seem OK from a personal hygiene pov, and are insisting they don't need anything from me or social services, they slept well last night and can manage.

Am I supposed to just leave it at that? I'm feeling very overwhelmed. It's just me with DH gone, my DC live away and DSis is also several 100 miles away but has lots of opinions on how Mum and Dad should behave.

I don't know what to do.

If they have capacity, then you don't do anything unless they ask you to help.
If one or both don't have capacity, you can ask for a Social Services assessment, then take it from there.

@Pigeonangel You have posted on here asking “what can I do”. Lots of posters have given various ideas and you are poo-pooing them all. I totally understand you saying your parents have capacity, in your case I would have a conversation with your parents regards going forward ….

Would they agree to an ot assessment with a view to getting stair lift?

My parenrs were reluctant too but persuaded them for ot assessment and they got a stair lift, electric bath seat and shower aids and aids to get in and out of bed.

You are right about that, OP.
I think you should continue to visit often, help in any way they will let you and occasionally say in a matter of fact voice that you would feel happier if they would agree to employ a cleaner, and also consider whether equipment or furniture exists that could make life more comfortable for them both. Put it like that - 'I would feel happier because although you are obviously managing very well, there are some health problems that might get worse if you carry on having to put so much effort in, washing in the kitchen and all that. I'd like to think of you having a slightly easier time'. Then leave it, don't argue with them or boss them around.

Sometimes, if the usual routes around don’t work, you have to try something different. Yes, there are issues around Data protection but, where elderly people are concerned you might find your GP open to communication. And knows of what to do.
Your parents sound very determined and understandably proud. But reluctant to accept there might be things that can make life easier. They are likely also to be very frightened.
Bedroom downstairs 100%.

One of the things my mum told me she hates more than anything about getting old, is decisions being taken from her, other people, even with the best intentions, taking over. I try hard not to do that, even if I do have to manage all her finances and healthcare appointments and medication. It’s much easier and quicker for me to deal with it all as I see fit, than double or triple the time going through it all with her to the same outcome. But it’s basic respect.

I never tell her I’m doing something, just offer a suggestion and ask if that would help? I also do it in small steps, not like DB who comes straight out and says “you should be doing this” and “you can’t do that” and taking things out of her hands and doing them. My lovely mum was always a feisty mare and this hasn’t gone away with age, and she has full capacity.

I would suggest you start small, offer something simple rather than a massive overhaul. “Mum, would it help if DSIS and I brought your beds downstairs and put them in the sitting room so you can sleep better?” “No? What about a commode downstairs so dad doesn’t have to wee in a bottle to save his dignity?”

and build up to “social services can offer a free visit from an occupational therapist to come and see if they can fit anything to help, like a shower rail or one outside the door”.

from my past experience, dad with Alzheimer’s and a brother with LD, you need to get into “the system” as soon as possible. And definitely before crisis time.

I wish you all the best, most miserable, stressful fucking time of my life dealing with this, but it’s not forever. 🌷

It would be worth asking the doctors surgery to arrange for a social prescriber to visit your parents. They really help liaise beween all the different organisations such as doctor/hospital/social services etc and might be able to get through to your parents better than family who they are more likely to ignore. It would also then be harder for your parents to pretend their spouse is more capable than they are if someone has visited them at home. Your dad will surely need a commode if he can't get to a toilet and the prescriber might be able to help with that.

If they're on waiting lists and still hopeful that they'll improve, can you frame it to them as making temporary adjustments until they get treatment? A temporary bedroom in the dining room just until dad can move about again might be an easier pill to swallow. If you can give an example, my friend broke her ankle so they moved the bedroom downstairs while she recovered etc.
I'm disabled and it is so difficult to accept changes when you can still do things even if it's a struggle, I like the way I cook, I don't want to eat someone elses idea of shepherds pie!
I do agree though that it might be worth speaking to them individually to get them on board with help for the other one. They're far more likely to want to support each other rather than accept help for themselves.
It's a tough time for everyone when our parents begin to need help.

They might be overwhelmed at the thought of implementing changes. This happened with my parents. I had to go spend a week with them and organise things for them including hiring a carer, helping with instructions and being there for the first couple of shifts.

If I were you I’d go to theirs with a clear, hands on approach of installing their bedroom in the dining room. Get your sister onboard and even your children if you need help with moving furniture.

I’d also start researching carers agencies with a view of booking a morning one that can help them both with hygiene/showers, eventually pads for your dad.

If you are worried about them cooking, sort out meal deliveries for them. Eventually a carer at dinner time to make sure meals are cooked/heated properly.

I’d get on with these Asap. If your parents have resources to pay for these, it will be fine

Actually, if he can’t poo then that is an urgent medical issue

You don't need their consent to contact their GP (or social services). It might annoy them but it's not illegal! The GP is bound by confidentiality so they can't tell you anything, but you can tell them about the situation. It sounds like mobility is an issue, but people often sleep upright because of breathing problems (typically pulmonary oedema) which are treatable. If they don't have a bathroom downstairs then they need intervention. This situation is a common occurrence for a GP, and they are very good at gaining agreement from stubborn patients, particularly elderly people who have respect for their doctor. Failing that, you can inform social services of the situation. Good luck!

Then leave them to struggle.

I know my elderly grandmother would not have been able to lift her DH off his chair and onto a commode to go for a poo and then put him back again, but perhaps your mother can.

They are not children or animals but they are vulnerable adults with medical needs that aren’t being bet.

They do not seem the type of people to ask for help.
So they will carry on struggling until someone gives it to them and unfortunately it will probably be too little too late.

If they're happy as they are all you can do is make suggestions. Could their house accommodate a stair lift?

What is the actual reason for their mobility decline? Do they have medication for arthritis (or whatever it is) and pain relief? The one thing that'll get them moving is adequate pain relief so try and ask about that.

It's true that elderly people do sometimes sleep in their chair. But it's true it's not good for their back etc and could exacerbate pain.

Could you show them recliner chairs that are designed at least partially to be slept on, and can help them up?

Just be supportive and do give them advice on things..but don't pressure them as they are cognitively well enough to make their own decisions. And they won't appreciate you bombarding them or inviting in people they aren't comfortable with.

It's a really difficult time for both you & them. When I faced a similar situation and my parents were resistant, I just used to slowly introduce things, such as reclining chairs etc & arrange for a cleaner to visit once a week (funds permitting). When my parents had passed & I was looking out for my elderly aunt, I got social services involved who insisted we created a micro environment in her lounge, reclining chair, raised bed, commode etc. You have to somehow sell it as a safeguarding issue. In this instance social services are your friends.

With respect (and kindness I’m going through a similar situation myself), but their not capable and if they were they wouldn’t arrange these things.

Bring the bed/beds downstairs, change the dining room into a bedroom. Order the recliner chairs etc, etc. They can be offended, furious and as cross as they like but these things are needed.

Muster the troops (your sister) so that there’s a “working party” getting things done. Once it’s done it’s done.

Some things may be temporary but it sounds like things have changed and you need to deal with the here and now.

Sometimes you do need to be blunt - it’s this or full time carers/care home.

Google to see whether you have a local Village Agent. They should be able to give you some advice, if not practical help.

Can you ring the gp and tip them the nod.

along the lines of “I know you can’t tell me anything but this is how they are …”

I did that with my mum and the GP was fantastic. And didn’t grass me up.

Similar situation previously too, what worked was getting my parents to leadi changes themselves by going through the CAB. - ( actually they started this themselves as were applying for a blue disabled badge ) and once change started then it was more easily accepted.

I also found that by praising/ noting what they can/ are doing they were less resistant to my efforts.

good luck, it’s not easy

How? I have no authority to do anything with their house or their money. I can't insist they go into a home so it's an empty threat.

Mum, dad: we need to make some changes now so when one or both of you are ill / significantly less mobile you’ve a better chance of being able to stay at home, assuming that’s what you want. We could set beds up in the dining room / get a stairlift / ask for an OT assessment to advise us what would be best: what do you think? Sis and I can organise/ help organise if you want.

Where on earth do you live that you'd order two large pieces of furniture against your parents wishes?

that's over stepping.

I think you assertively it to them that a bed (s) would be more comfortable but you are right you can't force them, is their bathroom downstairs?

All the posters telling you to just do x and y have perhaps not been through this. You can’t go into someone else’s home, when they have full metal capacity, and start reorganising everything, buy new stuff and invite in social services too.

We have been through this with PIL and it is slow and frustrating. All you can do is offer suggestions and make yourself available until they themselves accept that they need these things. It takes time though for them to decide for themselves, and it’s amazing how much they will put up with.

Some ideas to repeatedly float:
ready meals
Recliner chairs
walking frame with a tray attached
grab rails
commode
stairlift
downstairs bathroom
downstairs bedroom conversion
weekly cleaner
an hour a day carer

Like a PP we designated two afternoons a week to go round there and just be a pair of hands to do whatever needed doing eg washing up, admin, laundry. We made it like a normal pop in visit where we could chat whilst doing a few bits and pieces so they didn’t feel like we had just gone round to help. Because they absolutely didn’t want help!

If you do get SS involved bear in mind that they will be furious about the intrusion and may well play down their issues to get rid of them. You need their cooperation.

This is a really common scenario. For mentally competent adults there is nothing you can do except wait for the inevitable crisis.

on the Elderly parents board, there is a saying that you get to a point where you are always solving yesterdays problem. Come and join us bad daughters in the cockroach cafe support thread @Pigeonangel

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/elderlyparents

On sleeping in chairs - my DM has been sleeping in an armchair for about 9 years now as a shoulder injury means she can't ever lie down. This far she hasn't suffered any of the issues mentioned by PP and short of standard arthritis, is in pretty good health.