My parents are sleeping in chairs in the living room

[Pigeonangel]

And I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

I live very close and visit often. Always have done, am happy to. They're good company and have been fantastic parents and grandparents. When DH was terminally ill, and subsequently died, I honestly don't know how I'd have got through it without them.

That was only 5 years ago, they were there constantly for all of us, helping with house and car repairs, running errands etc. Until they hit 80 they were amazing sprightly older people who could do anything - furious at the suggestion they might be "vulnerable" during lockdown 🤣

How things change. In a matter of months they've both had health issues that mean their mobility is badly affected. Until recently it always seemed to be worse for one at a time and they're a great team so got by supporting each other, without asking or wanting much from me.

Now Mum can shuffle a bit with a frame and Dad is unable to walk at all. Last night they both slept in chairs downstairs. Mum suffles about to get food, do some cleaning and bring him a bed bottle etc. She managed to do a roast dinner for them both at the weekend, although I can't believe for a minute that would have been safe.

Mentally they are both totally with it, the house is perfectly livable (ie not dirty, if not practical), they seem OK from a personal hygiene pov, and are insisting they don't need anything from me or social services, they slept well last night and can manage.

Am I supposed to just leave it at that? I'm feeling very overwhelmed. It's just me with DH gone, my DC live away and DSis is also several 100 miles away but has lots of opinions on how Mum and Dad should behave.

I don't know what to do.

Totally agree. I find people wanting to take over their parents life, thinking they know better. I have seen grown children talk to their parents like children, they maybe older, but it doesn't render them stupid. Always put yourselves in that persons position, ...lf we are lucky enough to reach their ages, l hope we are treated with dignity and respect. Its coming for us all...think about it...

I don’t understand why the @Pigeonangel doesn’t answer questions about this 🤷🏼‍♀️

I’m planning not to be a massive cunt to my dc and to accept I might need help

There's no dignity in weeping sores or being incontinent and not able to get to the toilet and being unable to keep clean.

It's more about wanting to preserve dignity as long as possible by making some changes now.

Very few people have a nice dignified decline, more's the pity.

It is so so difficult when they are not totally capable ( in the general view) of living without support yet have ‘too much ‘ capacity to be ‘forced’ ( in their best interests) into anything.
How about saying to your mum why don’t we organize a downstairs room in case dad ever needs it , he probably won’t but I saw a special offer the other day ? Or vice versa according to who has the most mobility problems. Then wangle it so you get twin beds.
Stock up the fridge with marks sarnies yogurts cup a soups with an airy ‘ just thought it eould be nice if you don’t fancy cooking’ take them shopping and casually look-at ready meals…
It’s hard, good luck

When our LO could no longer drive we jumped on the chance to get a ‘driver’ ( self employed carer) to take them out and about shopping and what not in the day they then bit by bit did more help in the house, it was an absolute godsend and lo thought of them as a friend. It was company for them and a bit of s weight off for us

Fortunately/unfortunately (depending on your persoective) if your parents have capacity the threshold for social services intervention against their will is EXTREMELY high. I work for adult social services and I also have an elderly disabled mother so I speak from experience here.
Anything that happens needs to be done with their consent.
You can ask fir an assessment but it wont happen without their consent.
Often the way people end up with involvement against their will is if they end up sick or injured and in hospital.. the hospital then have a duty of care to make sure they are being discharged into a safe environment for tjem. At this point social services may become involved even without consent. HOWEVER if the individual then gets home and decides they dont want help any more and they have been assessed as having mental capacity, they can stop the help and it wont be forced on them.
Its a very hard abd long road to get help for anyone against their will.

My own mother will accept no help. Sent carers away. Sleeps in a chair. Wont wash really.
She is deemed to have capacity and so nothing can be forced on her.

I often sleep in the chair at night, as did my Mom when she was a similar age. Its just easier somehow. Good that you are aware but as they seem to be managing please don't try to take over. You will know when to step in. In the meantime make sure they are claiming attendance allowance because may be the feel it's too expensive to buy in help. It's not 'means tested' any way and as you say they have paid into the system all their lives they are entitled to help. Things like stairlifts can make a lot of difference. We now keep 'ready meals' to pop in the microwave to cover the 'off days' when pain gets in the way of food preparationn. All the major supermarkets stock them so there's no need for expensive services. You can make sure the freezer is kept stocked without being too obvious. This is where the attendance allowance also helps. Just please, don't make them feel useless. It doesn't help knowing you're losing your ability to cope. How wonderful that they take care of each other's needs. Most of all, visit or call as often as you can. Flowers on a gravestone aren't nearly as important as flowers for the living!!!

I know they say they are ok, but @Pigeonangel I have worked in care of the elderly, and the situation you describe is not safe. Sleeping in armchairs is not viable long term, they’ll get pressure sores, potentially DVTs, oedema in their legs, circulation issues, and, if your dad can’t walk at all, how is he passing stools? He can only use a bottle for urine. This is a safeguarding issue, they need proper help, and to be very blunt, if you allow them to be stubborn about it the consequences might well be deadly. Speak to their GP, say you are concerned for their safety and well being. There are lots of ways to enable them to stay at home and continue to be mostly independent, everything from a bedroom downstairs, a commode (for your dad) Wiltshire farm foods for the freezer, to kettle tippers so they can make a cup of tea safely. But you can’t let them muddle along like this. Get your sister and intervene.

Rather than getting them caters etc, coukd you initially convince them to get a medical bed of the type that will sit yr Dad up as well as lie flat? Have it in the dining room. Buy a table that fits somewhere for them to eat at. Go with the "I hate the idea of you sleeping in armchairs, it must be so uncomfortable. It should be our job to convert the dining room to a proper decent bedroom, and there'd still be space for a table <here>. Please let us do that for you, I know you think it's silly".

Hi OP, I work in aged care. We know many people take risks throughout their lives: commencing smoking, drug taking, unsafe sex, drinking to excess, getting into relationships with inappropriate people. People are allowed to engage in high risk behaviours at any stage of life, even old age. Your parents are allowed to to make decisions that you consider not in their best interests - they may make the decision to have autonomy and live as independently as they can is more important than the risk of falls, pressure injuries. They have capacity to live the life they chose, you can advise them or give them your thoughts but ultimately they get to make life decisions for themselves

Call Age UK. You also need to secure LPAs for both of them asap. (Talk to Age UK about the best way to approach this before you talk to them.) Good luck.

Fair point, but that doesn’t mean they know everything. They may think they are ‘coping’ but why should they be just ‘coping’ when there are things they could do to make life more enjoyable. They should be comfortable in their old age. They have spent years caring for you and you need to tell them
you just want them to be comfortable and enjoy their old age rather than just surviving.

They are also probably terrified that your Dad will get put in a care home and they will be separated. It is important to reassure them this would be a last resort and you will do everything to support them to stay together. This could mean adaptations/carers at home but may also mean moving into sheltered accommodation - they may not be aware there are now apartments available with carers onsite that means they can continue to be independent but with specific care available and less worrying for you as there will be a carer onsite site 24/7 if they have a fall etc.

@MummyWillow1 Have you cared for an elderly relative? Your post suggests not....

Absolutely @Londonlassy but if it is the OP who gets called in to mop up the consequences, I think they get a voice in this - at least to try and find an acceptable way to suggest alternatives.

It’s very difficult when they’re not ready to accept help.
how about moving their bed/s downstairs for now so they can at least sleep flat.
I feel for you.

My suggestion would be to get Power of Attorneys for them both for health and property.However it does take time for them them to be authorised and it is quite straightforward to complete on line, doing a bit at a time.
I am glad that we did this 2 years or so ago as my DP has dementia symptoms.

What council area are they living in, and I'll see what support you can refer them to.

LOCAL COUNCIL -Firstly you can phone your council and ask for advice from the Adult Social Care team (social workers etc)

AGE UK- often have lists of nail cutters, cleaners, befrienders which is a start in helping them with some tasks, and a potential gateway to encouraging them to get more help from Adult Social Care for a care package, if they need it, or to get Occupational therapy in to assess for mobility aids, installing a stair lift, walk in shower.

Or looking at downstairs living properly.
Getting beds downstairs, if they have downstairs loo and sink for strip washes.

Can you directly ask them about rearranging furniture?

HOUSING ASSOCIATION? Ask them for help with assessing daily living, fitting grab rails, raised toilet seat etc.

You do have a right to express concern to Adult social care, social work team, council, whatever you call them, about your parents wellbeing and state of mind.

Yes if they have mental capacity to make 'unwise decisions' its their business, to an extent, but thats not necessarily for you to decide, as you're basically responsible/tasked with picking up the pieces when it goes wrong at home.

And its a massive burden if they don't allow some help to relieve them , and relieve you of the anxiety over their welfare.

FALLS ALARM -They could at least wear a lifeline falls alarm.

If you request a referral for that (through the council website or phone number, under Assistive Technology) the person visiting them may be concerned and put a referral in themselves for a care package or safeguarding if its that concerning.

You as ultimately their main support/carer should not have to shoulder this burden alone and you need help, so you need to go above them, unfortunately.
Easier said than done

You as ultimately their main support/carer should not have to shoulder this burden alone and you need help, so you need to go above them, unfortunately.
Easier said than done

As I said in my post they get to provide advice but not force them. Similarly, for a person who makes unwise choices around alcohol,smoking dangerous sporting activities etc its family or loved ones, the NHS or social services that then mop it up when it goes wrong. We don’t stop other age groups make choices rightly or wrongly but as soon as someone gets old we are quick to rob them of their autonomy .

My parents are over 80 ,still very mobile, walking, driving, meeting friends in town.
And they are not outdorsey types, just stayed active mentally and physically.

Some long term conditions render people immobile, urine infections can explain temporary immobility,

but generally, if you don't use it, you lose it.

That's why astronauts use resistance gym equipment in space...

Apply for Attendance Allowance for them both. Its not means tested.
Ask CAB or Age UK to help fill in application.

Its based on need, not on someone available to actually attend to them.
Then suggest that money be used to pay for help, Lifeline falls alarm, nail cutting.

Have you seen their feet recently?

Maybe its something simple like nails, if they are shuffling, they probably can't reach their toes.

I've seen elderly family members end up in care homes earlier than necessary because they didn't put anything in place to ensure that they could cope in their own homes. Tiptoeing around meant their children or younger family members were constantly playing catch-up as their relative's situation then deteriorated at pace.

Someone who was a candidate for living at home with some support or living in sheltered accommodation can be one fall away from their needs becoming such that it is no longer an option.

It would help to address it sensibly while choices are available and means elderly people have as much control as possible.

Have your parents given you a reason as to why they are reluctant to accept help? I believe pride may play a huge part and not wanting to be a burden on the family. Having the discussion about LPOA with your parents would be a good start. 'Slowly, slowly wins the race!'