I admit I had my babies a long time ago, so probably everything I think I know is wrong….

[CurlewKate]

…and I’m sure there have been many good changes in baby raising practices. But two things in particular seem to be causing anxiety and stress in the new and expecting mothers on here and in my RL that there seems to be no real evidence for, and seem to just be things to beat women up about. Colostrum harvesting and tummy time. Am I missing acres of scientific evidence? To nail my colours to the mast, I was a hippy dippy attachment parent who was old and confident enough to question anything I was told if it didn’t seem to make sense to me. But for many that’s a very very hard thing to do.

22 year old had grobags. Very popular at the time

i did tummy time on ds born in 1994

I knew a baby who went from the car seat, to indoors in the car seat, to back to the car, to round the shops in a buggy in a car seat. I rarely saw him be picked up.

This is quite an extreme example (I think). Just leaving the car seat more often would have done wonders. If you go swimming, you are likely to notice lots of flat heads when people's hair is wet.

My eldest is 7 and colostrum harvesting was only advised for women with GD at that point. I was sooooo leaky with DC1 I didnt realise it would happen pre birth!

Idid bf all my dc till two so am a fan. That said I do often find the WHO a bit blunt. It’s like the women of breeding age shouldn’t consume any alchohol to prevent risk to a potential fetus suggestion that was well publicised. Obviously there are a small number children who will suffer significant difficulties due to FAS but is that a reason to restrict all women?

I’m sure there are children out there who suffer significant harm due to not being breast fed but that will predominantly be due to a lack of access to clean water or poor quality formula from manufacturers etc.

IIn the UK the differences in outcomes between bf/ff will be marginal. I would prefer advice to be given that feels a bit more nuanced as I think we are all capable of making considered decisions rather than the (slightly patronising) advice thst gets churned out.

We were always told that they were a cot death risk 25 odd years ago, so when I had my youngest I was aghast that so many mums were using them, and I stuck to sheets and blankets.

The advice swings wildly every ten years or so. Eat peanuts, don’t eat peanuts, wrap them up, don’t let them get too hot, wean at 3 months, don’t wean till 6 months, don’t cosleep, do cosleep…

There is plenty of proof in science that breast feeding provides anti bodies and immunity.

Every woman should feed as she wants but please don’t pretend formula and breast milk are exactly the same. There is plenty of evidentiary support that breast milk adapts to the babies needs where formula doesn’t.

Stand by your choices but don’t lie that both forms are the same to make yourself feel justified or better.

The NHS encourages colostrum harvesting from 37 weeks of pregnancy onwards.

No, it really doesn’t!

I am a bit of a devote of Elena Bridges and her work on parenting in pre industrial societies. She says tummy time is not necessary if we carry babies upright loads as we are carry mammals. The modern problem is babies in bassinets and on mats all the time. Mine were in a sling lots and fed on me lying on their fronts which counts as tummy time.

I never got any pre baby colostrum and breastfed very successfully. My sister in law got tons, didn't want to put baby to boob but was able to give the baby colostrum from the start. I think it can also be great if you have a baby in the NICU.

This is exactly how I feel about it and I'm a trained breastfeeding counselor with 10 years of experience.

I've seen no research that it improves breastfeeding rates or ,more important to me at least, if it's improves mother feeling toward how their breastfeeding goes.

That’s exactly why it’s encouraged. So that the first time you have a go, isn’t in stressful and emotional situation! I work in this area and always say to mums don’t worry if you don’t get any. But just having a practise can be helpful and if you do get some then great! As it can be used in the situation you describe

When you’re pregnant you hear nothing else than breast feeding is best. We’re not stupid we know how to conduct our own research.
Even when you state that you will be using formula from day one, health care professionals, still go on and on. Perhaps they should just listen and provide the support requested (I asked about the safest way to make up a bottle) rather than their own agenda.

My DC were born in 2006 and 2009, they had tummy time. I hadnt ever heard of colostrum harvesting until I saw it on a thread title today!

As I said, possibly slight increases in certain things but not enough to claim that not breastfeeding comes at a "massive cost to the NHS" as if breastfed babies are much more healthy than formula fed ones.

I was surprised last summer when a friend was looking after her grandchild and I suggested we meet in the park. Apparently you aren't supposed to let them in the sun until they are six months old! Our had tans by then... 😬

I was a hippy dippy FTM nearly 18 years ago, and both Tummy Time and colostrum harvesting were encouraged then. One child wasn’t bothered about TT, one loved it. CH turned out to be very helpful when I needed surgery a couple of days after dc2 was born and was then unwell for a while.

Exactly. Sure breast milk is better as it’s natural but formula is absolutely a perfectly safe and suitable alternative, and by the time your child goes to school nobody knows cares or thinks about how the child was fed as a baby

There is no proof in science about anything, that's just factual reality so claiming there is misinformed.

I haven't claimed they are exactly the same, nor that breast milk doesn't have some cool features - including as you say adaptation - but the magical qualities many people like to preach it bestows are not held up. Breast milk is an evolutionary process but it isn't magic and it isn't perfect.

It's a great way to feed your baby, it's nutritious, convenient and comes with lots of benefits. But don't fall into thinking formula in this day and age falls in its shadow in any way. 'Differences' in IQ, gut health, immunity etc, attributed to breastfeeding are reliant more on multiple concurrent environmental factors, rather than being a reflection of the milk itself, and while there are some 'advantages', if you'd like to call them that, they are minimal, transient and oversold.

It matters much more who your parents are, and the environment you live in when looking at gaining real, long-lasting advantages in both life and health.

The percentage of new mums that are actually extremely anxious and stressed about these minor things is significantly lower than the percentage of people who had babies 20+ years ago who go on about how anxious and stressed
new mums are.

The majority of new mums are not kept awake at night by tummy time, even if they make a MN post about it and they arent wringing their hands about colostrum harvesting

Just as each new generation that enters the workplace is so much lazier than the last, each new mum is overly anxious. "We didn't do it like that in our day". It's just arrogance and a way to ridicule those younger than you

Health information changes. You can only work with the most up to date reasearch/information you have at the time. Putting your baby on their tummy for 15 minutes a day is hardly a big deal

There is no advice that says your baby is definitely going to come to harm from being left to cry while you shower or die from a single glass of wine in pregnancy

It is simply harm reduction, and this is always how it is presented by midwifes/in leaflets. Things like FAS/SIDs are obvious devastating consequences, a lot of babies will be fine either way but the consequences of not being fine are devastating. Up to date advice doesn't improve the life of every baby but it does reduce the number of babies experiencing harm (even if this is a small number)

For things like alcohol, no one needs a drink. There's no proven safe limit, its obvious to just advise no alcohol.

You followed medical advise at the time, our understanding as evolved. Im sure in 30yrs some of the things we are doing now will be "wrong". But you can only work with the current most up to date information.

Gosh, are you saying that midwives and hv's now provide the statistical bases for the information they give? How fab.

Mine just said breast was best with no context about the WHO's research being worldwide or whether significant use of pain relief/ABs due to a breast abscess impacted the benefits, notwithstanding the impact of a mother's pnd on her baby because she was made to feel an utter failure for being unable to take the agony of breast feeding *unfective mastitis, breast abscess, likely thrush of the inner breast tissues, beyond 8 weeks.

Exactly. Statistically, the two biggest predictors of a baby's future success (an all encompassing term) is the educational background of its mother and the amount of books available in the family home.

It's bugger all to do with breast feeding.

I had my DD in 1983 and neither of these ideas were 'a thing' then. Unbelievably,we were encouraged to put our baby on their front to sleep. Total opposite of today's advice. Thankfully,my DD hated being on her front and always slept on her back.

My first was born in1983 and I definitely remember that tummy time (maybe called ‘should spend some time on his tummy’) was recommended back then and that he would only tolerate it for a few minutes at a time. Perhaps it wasn’t regarded as SO important (that it seems calamitous if they don’t like it). Colostrum harvesting is a much newer thing. My daughter tried for her second child but couldn’t get any… didn’t stress her as she’d already successfully breastfed her first.