I admit I had my babies a long time ago, so probably everything I think I know is wrong….

[CurlewKate]

…and I’m sure there have been many good changes in baby raising practices. But two things in particular seem to be causing anxiety and stress in the new and expecting mothers on here and in my RL that there seems to be no real evidence for, and seem to just be things to beat women up about. Colostrum harvesting and tummy time. Am I missing acres of scientific evidence? To nail my colours to the mast, I was a hippy dippy attachment parent who was old and confident enough to question anything I was told if it didn’t seem to make sense to me. But for many that’s a very very hard thing to do.

I'm bewildered by the whole pumping then bottle feeding of breast milk. What a faff. I would sometimes express first thing on one side as that's when you had most milk and freeze it for emergencies but the equipment and sterilising is such a pain... talk about make your life harder. It just seems so sad and detached to not enjoy the feeds - I loved having an excuse to sit down, you can't pass them to anyone else, and whatever else needs doing can wait.

Anne Diamond campaigned for research into cot death in 1991 after her 3rd dc died at 3 months old.
This led to parents being encouraged to put babies to sleep on their backs and not their tummies and with other advise cut cot death in the UK from 2000 a year to 300.
Supervised tummy time then became a thing.
My ds was born in 1984 and he was always put to sleep on his side as that is what I had been advised, my dsil refused to follow the new advice and put her dc on her tummy as that's how she herself slept.

I would actually say that this near obsession with following information is causing so much anxiety. Babies differ so you so often need to go with your gut. Tummy time was a thing 25 years ago because too many people left them in car seats continuously, of course now they are saying don’t leave them in car seats hardly at all, completely unrealistic for those who live more rurally causing yes more anxiety (my friends dd now a healthy 26 year old spent most of her first 4 weeks of life in a car seat strapped to a tractor because it was harvest season!)

if you are expecting now, do read current advice but also learn to interpret different opinions and make a decision based on what is right for you, after all people have managed to raise dc before the internet!

Yes but others will hate that. You can't pass them on to anyone else, you're the one trapped under the baby and having to get up six times a night to feed them, and you can't just leave the house for a peaceful walk or a coffee. It's all on you.

My babies were born in the 80s and slept on their tummies or sides. We were expressly told not to put them to sleep on their backs in case they choked.

Well yeah they did a bit.

I agree with PPs that colostrum harvesting is really stressful as a concept if you can’t do it. I tried a bit with both of mine and couldn’t at all, but breastfed pretty easily with both.

I think perineal massage falls into the same bracket - I hated it, it was really uncomfortable and then made me anxious I would struggle with birth and get bad tears. I stopped after a few tries. No tears in either birth and managed fine.

Tummy time is I think a bit overrated for average parents but I know some super anxious parents who decided they couldn’t possibly put their baby down at all ever because of germs and I think for people like that, having advice that says you need to put them down is important! Mine didn’t like tummy time really but spent lots of time in the baby carrier which gives them similar head and neck strength practice.

Mothers literally worry about everything. Because having a baby is hard. I had my first in 1996 and I’m pretty sure we did tummy time then. I had my second in 2018 and we did then too.

Colostrum harvesting wasn't mentioned anywhere when I had my 9yo, or I probably would have done it. It was a thing when I had my 6yo, though she was a planned section (eldest was emergency), so maybe I was looking in different places.

It was kind of handy in the first day when we got into a cycle of her being to tired to latch and feed but to hungry to sleep, but we probably would have managed without. I took 40ml of it into the hospital, but only used about 10ml before the rest went off. Would probably have been more useful with the first, when we were both learning.

PS. Just in case any FTM see 40ml and panic, I had already fed my eldest for 2 years before becoming pregnant, it's normal to produce much less then that.

Agree. I breastfed partly for the convenience so can't understand why anyone would want to be feeding AND pumping, it must take up so much time. And one of mine was a bottle refuser anyway.

My youngest baby was born in 2001 and was a bad sleeper, in the end it was agreed against all the science of the time that he could sleep on his tummy. He still does as an adult. I also did controlled crying with him and mixed feeding as he was on 99th percentile and though when I pumped I had a decent amount of milk he was a big eater, Then at 3 months he was fed solids as just so hungry on advice from the HV. He was a gargantuan baby, not overly fat just huge and very long. He was really big till he hit about 4 and then was very much a regular size child as he plateaued until he hit later teens and then he grew to almost 6ft 5. My DD was very much an easier baby with no sleep issues and no ridiculously enormous appetite,

It was Dr Benjamin Spock in the 1960’s, my MIL still has his book and then Gina Ford was all the rage when I had my children.

I had my children in the last couple of years and I am bemused as you are. There was a recent study at a Uni hospital about colostrum harvesting and they concluded that it just leads to anxiety as it's hard for most women to harvest it before birth and it makes them think they have a low supply. Babies go straight on the boob as soon as they are born don't they? Mind did. There isn't a cut of time, colostrum could be harvested after your baby is born can't it? Then the midwives could help and you would get more if you don't have your placenta in.

The women in my baby group were just constantly expressing their milk to put in the freezer and I was so bemused by all of it. They weren't back at work or anything. They would talk to each other about how many ml they could express. It sounded exhausting. To keep supply up you still need to be expressing whilst your baby feeds so I can't see how it gives you a break at all. If men want to bond they can't think up another way surely? Lots of women would pull out a bottle during playgroup which had breastmilk in. Most women didn't breastfeed for long (they weren't bothered, weren't upset) and I'm not surprised as I'm sure all that expressing messes with your supply.

Timmy time we fell behind on. Our Mum's group nurse told you we had to do it 3-4 times a day, like boot camp. Our baby just flopped down he had zero strength in that department.

I think a lot of these things have always been there but now they have a different name and mums are being advised to do it. I used to give my ds1 finger foods because I was fed up with him grabbing the spoon and flicking mashed vegetables at me. It wasn't until years later people started calling it baby led weaning and talking about it like it had just been invented. I remember being advised to do colostrum harvesting for my 4th baby as we knew he wouldn't be able to breastfeed. Although he was born at 35 weeks so I didn't do it in the end.

DT’s are mid 20’s - formula fed from day one, no co sleeping, used a playpen daily. Never missed a shower or having a proper meal. Baby groups and classes weren’t my thing.I went back to work full time when they were six months. I obviously had easy babies- perhaps easier as there wasn’t Mn to get me stressed as to what I was doing.

Mine are teenagers (14 and 17), and I've never heard of colostrum harvesting! It seems like an utter load of faff for absolutely nothing, for the average woman.

I did have tummy time recommended to me to strengthen their necks, and saw no reason not to put them on a blanket on the floor for a few minutes a day - and they do have lovely round heads, haha.

What I did at the time, which wasn't recommended even then, (although the nurse actually tucked them in with me at night in the hospital!) was co-sleeping. Without a pillow and with one blanket, both my kids survived co-sleeping well and by 6 months had practically learnt to breastfeed themselves without waking me up 😂

The thing I don't get is the baby sleeping bags, which were gaining in popularity when mine were born. But when napping during the day or evening in their cot, my kids had the same blankets my mother used with me as a baby. In winter, it was: viella nightie, knitted woollen vest and booties, swaddled in a cloth nappy, and then tucked in well under a sheet and several wool blankets. Sometimes with a knitted woollen hat if the house was cold.

These days, it seems like all babies are in cotton/polyester, and have nothing but a sleeping bag.

Colostrum harvesting was incredibly helpful for us. I had an emergency c section and DS and I were separated for 6 hours. I had brought 10 syringes of colostrum which did the trick until I came out.

Tummy time is important as babies are otherwise on their backs all the time and don't get to exercise their neck and abs.

See my eldest 2 are 34 and 30 and I don't remember such a thing. I wonder if that's why the 2nd one didn't really roll and never crawled. Although st walked at 7.5 months When eldest was born it was still side sleeping recommended.. And she crawled like a demon

My babies never liked it much, but I like to think it encouraged them to roll sooner to escape it 😂 Once they built up strength and were able to push up onto their elbows and look around, they always seemed so pleased though.

It’s in the document reference 18. I left the whole thing on there, as a) it’s interesting b) it’s an easy look through. Not complex at all for anyone interested but without time or without knowledge.

Something tells me that someone is offended…

I have a friend who couldn't feed from her breasts for personal reasons she pumped and fed her baby from a bottle for months, she thought. It was worth it for the breastmilk.

The newborn period remind me a bit of wedding planning. It makes some women fall completely apart and some just get on with it. The idea that you can’t shower you can’t eat or cook… I’m sure we all had days like that. A terrible night, a growth spurt, cluster feeding. But it is not normal for your entire new born experience to be like that and I find it quite frustrating when women pretend it is.

It scares people, and it takes focus away from how wonderful it is to have a newborn.

Ah now I most definitely obsessed over the tests 30 years ago - I think I bought at least 6 the first time 🤣

Yummy time was a thing with my eldest who is now 14. Tbh I breathed a sigh of relief when she rolled onto her front at 3 months as she is / was a tummy sleeper and I was terrified to sleep her on her tummy due to risk of sids

My DD was the same age. By the time the " back to sleep" recommendations came out she was walking so irrelevant.

God reading that just makes it blindingly obvious that they should fund copious amounts of support for the majority of mums who attempt breastfeeding but end up stopping before 6 weeks.

Instead they drum on about the benefits. They’d be better funding some actual support rather than leaflets on why you should do it