I admit I had my babies a long time ago, so probably everything I think I know is wrong….

[CurlewKate]

…and I’m sure there have been many good changes in baby raising practices. But two things in particular seem to be causing anxiety and stress in the new and expecting mothers on here and in my RL that there seems to be no real evidence for, and seem to just be things to beat women up about. Colostrum harvesting and tummy time. Am I missing acres of scientific evidence? To nail my colours to the mast, I was a hippy dippy attachment parent who was old and confident enough to question anything I was told if it didn’t seem to make sense to me. But for many that’s a very very hard thing to do.

And yes tummy time is good for them developmentally and helps prevent flat head that so many are aflicted with as a result of the safe sleep guidelines which is laid flat on their back to sleep.

When I was a young mother, late 70s/early 80s, babies were encouraged to sleep on their front as it was 'good for them developmentally' and look where that got us. Up until then babies usually slept on their side/back.

Colostrum harvesting of course is recommended by the NHS because a huge number of newborns get no breastmilk nowadays and that comes at a massive cost to the NHS.

As for tummy time, my eldest was born 30 years ago and it was recommended then. I’ve done volunteer work for years with young families and seen many many cases of flat head in children. Eye opening.

My experience is this is partly related to how capable women are now vs the past. I went from a job where I was making big decisions every day and having real impact to hours and hours with just a newborn (and let’s be honest, most of the time they are neither particularly difficult or interesting) it’s easy to use that time and pent up energy to project manage the shit out of pregnancy and childbirth.

Tummy time was a thing even 40+ years ago when i was a baby. I have heard about it from my own mother.

Marking to read later.

I had my dd in 2006 and both of these were things back then.

Colostrum has known lifelong health benefits and tummy time helps strengthen back and neck muscles.

Not sure why either thing would cause any stress though 🤔

I wonder if maybe terminology has changed and that's why some of us don't recognise things that we were being told back in the day?

My kids were born 1989 -1996 and I was never told anything about 'tummy time' (I would have remembered because of the awful tweeness of it). Not for any of them. But I probably WAS encouraged to put them on the floor on a mat, and to give them chance to strengthen their neck muscles, it was just called something different back then.

What is the "massive cost to the NHS" of babies not getting breastmilk?

Because when women can't get any colostrum out they start panicking and worrying they won't ever have any or be able to breastfeed. There are real gular threads here saying exactly that.

I had mine in 2016 and 2017 and it was never mentioned

My nephews are mid 20s, we bought the youngest a tummy time toy thing when he was a newborn.
I only heard of collustrum harvesting on a MN thread this week. DS is 17.
The biggie I see on here is the trauma of making up formula. I mostly breast fed but had fully made up bottles in the fridge and out in my changing bag often. The whole palaver now seems like a nightmare.

I didn't harvest colostrum with any of mine, however, I knew I wanted to breast feed and they were all breastfed for between 11 and 24 months.

I didn't do tummy time either but I live in London, rarely drive and my babies spent most of the time in the sling or on a play mat.

One of mine was in a floor bed before one as he could pull himself out of hit cot head first. The others didn't try to escape.

My 1st was born mid 80s, 2nd 10 years later. Never heard of ‘tummy time’ until 1st grandchild came along! We did put our babies on their tummies when awake for a while, but it didn’t have a name.

Breastfeeding rates have increased over the last number of decades not decreased.

I assume they recommend it because if you can’t feed straight after birth, you’ll have the important colostrum milk all ready to go.

But really they would be better on just focusing on helping women who want to breastfeed, feed as soon as possible after birth. If people are giving colostrum in a bottle it actually will make it harder to have a successful breastfeeding later on.

Sometimes this advice is too focused on the baby. I really think the best way to ultimately increase breastfeeding rates is to try and help woman who want to breastfeed have happy relaxed breastfeeding journeys.

@WhosMadeline I think a floor bed is seen as safer when you have climbers - both of mine were in toddler beds by 18 months because they could climb out of the top of the cot. DH somehow managed it at younger than 1, he gave MIL a fright when she couldn't find him on the morning (he was happily crawling about)

Well "back in the day" people hit their kids, shouted at them, neglected and ignored them, left them to cry themselves to sleep etc

It wasn't some magical time where parents and kids were all perfectly happy.... And it's not as if we have an adult population that are happy, content, free and secure with their emotions etc...

I still have flat head and im 53

Being completely honest, I disregarded most of the modern books and blogs and I just went straight back to guidance in vintage books from the 40s - 60s.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't give babies whisky or anything like that. But it's amazing how they cut through the noise without the guilt tripping, over-therapising, and avalanches of accoutrements and fuss that seem to accompany more modern thoughts on child rearing.

😂 😂 😂

Presumably most kids have a bedroom to sleep in... You just put the mattress in the floor instead of the cot. And don't have shit lying around they can tangle up in or choke on or whatever... which you probably wouldn't anyway.

My daughter had been stuck before being born and her neck was very stiff after birth. After a short while she developed quite a flat head on the side her neck was stiff, as she was always lying on the same part of her head when she was lying flat. We considered a helmet but in the end trusted the advice that it would resolve. 'Tummy time' and other strategies to get her to look in other directions to loosen her neck did make a huge difference and one day I just realised her head was no longer flat. She hated tummy time on the floor but it was very important. She didn't mind tummy time upright on our chest so we balanced it. I think it's always been a thing but was given a 'name' with advice to keep babies on their back.

References here;

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/534160/Commissioning_infant_feeding_services_infographics__Part_1_.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Colostrum harvesting isn’t a big deal. The midwife should explain: 1. Some people won’t get anything and that is totally normal and doesn’t mean you can’t breastfeed; and 2. It’s predominantly to help you get used to the techniques for hand expression (using pumps is a risk for pre-term labour and strictly discouraged). The actual colostrum is a bonus. It shouldn’t be something that causes pressure but unfortunately I don’t always think that messaging comes across. Our antenatal class midwife was great in that regard and we had several conversations about it in the group because some of the women were struggling. She really pushed the message that it had zero bearing at all on their ability to breastfeed after which helped them a lot.

Im very glad I did it and I’m lucky it worked well for me. I had multiple syringes from 1ml to 2.5ml that I expressed between 37 and 39w in my freezer and in the hospital fridge. After several days in hospital with no sleep, a failed (very bloody long) induction and a full day of contractions and no food, ending in an emergency C section, I collapsed through exhaustion (after we’d had skin to skin while they stitched me up and I was taken into recovery), so I couldn’t feed my baby. I had colostrum in the fridge at the hospital so they gave him that rather than formula for his first feed. I’m incredibly grateful that I had that option because it gave me enough of a window to rest so I could feed him next time. Unfortunately, a relative took the rest of it out of my freezer accidentally so it went to waste (yes I cried!), but all I needed was that 5ml.

My mum was doing tummy time with me back in the early 90s. Encouraging your child to strengthen their muscles rather than lying on their back all day isn’t a bad thing nor is it new. Sitting up with baby on your chest so they’re able to push themselves up and look around counts as tummy time so a lot of people would have been doing it without realising.

Mine are 5 and 3. I didn't do any harvesting because I could physically get milk to pump out my breasts. I breastfed my first for 2 years and my second for just under 3 years, so I wasn't anxious or bothered that I didn't harvest colostrum. With tummy time, I did it with my first but didn't bother with my second. Although I know it's meant to be good for them, my second absolutely hated it so I didn't put him through it. He's now more physically able than his older brother 🤷🏼‍♀️

There's a fair bit of privilege inherent in this - many babies do not have a room to themselves. Most babies under 6 months old are in their parents room.

My eldest (of 4) is 32 and we did tummy time back in the 90s. I understood it was to help strengthen neck muscles and good prep for eventually rolling over ect. I think my mum said they did the same when i was a baby (70s)

Re: flat head. Never heard of it.

We were told to maybe expect colostrum leak near term, or if we squeezed, but not specifically advised to harvest pre birth. We were advised to harvest leaked milk/colostrum from the breast not being used at a feed. That was handy - i froze it in ice cube trays.

Re cot/floor.
When my older 3 were babies advise was: safe to go into their own rooms at night (in moses or cot) from 3 months iirc.

When youngest was born (11) advice had changed to 6 months so i did that. We put her in a cot. BUT at 9 months she climbed out of it !!! (and walked god help us) so we put her in her own bed with pillows and blankets on the floor in case she fell out and baby proofed the room and she was fine.

Could you reference the part that refers to the massive cost to the nhs as the poster asked you to?