Labour isn't working - Thread 25

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙 🩵

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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B.P seems to have acquired that pale waxy look with a thousand mile stare that befell Reeves when she was forced to sit next to Starmer on the front bench.

@Upstartledlove your posts. Ha at both.

Chagos has come round to bite, it looks like the trade deal with the US is being stalled too

The Labour benches look very depressed.
Its galling that Starmer keeps banging on about self determination for Greenlanders, whilst simultaneously throwing Chagossians under a bus.

PMQs: Labour MP Steve Witherton just stood up, told Starmer he is weak, and asked when he's going to stand up against bullying Trump.

A good question predictably brushed off with much stuttering and stammering.

KS is looking positively beleaguered today - and evil marionette Phillipson sitting behind him seems to be in stasis; motionless and seemingly impassive.

Edit: Betraying my own ignorance of how the Senedd works there 😙

Its noticeably more hostile from his own side. I noticed Starmers stuttering and mispronounciations too.
Phillipson looks numb.

I laughed at Richard Holden's dramatic bow after he got kicked out. 😂

Not at all cynical; I think PMQs is seen by most, if not all, MPs to raise their profile in the eyes of their constituents.

Hopefully, unless something goes very wrong, at the next GE all their posturing will be proved to have been vain.

Yes but the bar of all parties is imo abysmal.

Our greatest weakness in all parties is that these days many of the MPs who rise to the top have never worked in the private sector for any length of time. They're awash in political leaning degrees. Have worked in the public sector, Westminster, the unions

They're hot housed creatures .

Yes and they’re not in politics for the right reasons. They’re not there for the good of the people - they’re in it for themselves and themselves only. Starmer a perfect example.

The shine has worn off re Starmer even for them.

Interested in the walk out bow mentioned in pp off to look

Afternoon all 😊

@justasking111 sorry you have a lurgy, I missed that. Hope you recover ASAP.

Can I ask a question here, please? I don't dare to ask it on the other threads.

Why is everyone so excited about Mark Carney's speech? Is it because he was so blunt? (or as blunt as a politician speaking at WEF ever will be). Or is it because it's seen as a warning shot to America?

It's a lot of nice rhetoric that sounds very appealling. Standing up to bullies, coming together, holding superpowers accountable, holding true to our values. It all sounds very statesmanlike.

Of course, neither Canada nor any of the countries Carney is appealling to have been doing a great job on defense spending. The foundation of tough talk is built on shaky ground - nor are our economies going great guns.

I'm not really sure how all this plays out, really. Bold words are just fluff against material conditions but it's clearly exciting enough for some.

@Upstartled dammit - I just asked on the other thread. That was me being impatient. I'm on my last tea break and very bored of work

Actually, there'll probably be a resounding silence. Thank you.

Oh, the other, other thread 😬

Yeah, I'm not sure I have enough knowledge on the geopolitics around Greenland to sustain an interesting conversation on it. I just know that it's dangerous for political egos to be writing cheques our treasuries can't cash.

@Upstartled actually I think there's more than one thread about his speech

He's caused quite a stir!

I will catch up with home things later including PMQs. I was a bit worried that would turn into a "look at you, your MPs are leaving in droves" ...but I suppose there's no point to that because it's not like anyone's queueing up to join the party in charge...

why is my head full of political PR strategy? Did someone sneak in and replace my brain overnight? (about 10 days or so ago.? I'm just finding it all very fascinating)

I’ve always been one of those people that has not understood how anyone can says “I would never vote Tory” or “I would NEVER vote Labour” because parties and politics of course do change over time according to the landscape but I must say I can’t imagine myself voting for Labour again any time soon as they are SO CRAP and bitter and the politics of envy and everything suspicious natural conservatives said they were.

In general I don’t have much personal antipathy to Starmer - he is the best of a seriously bad bunch - I don’t want Rayner or Burnham or Rachel Reeves in charge of dealing with Trump. And he’s not an anti semite.

Reeves I actually dislike but probably would do no more to her than hastily and repeatedly jab the ‘close doors’ button in a lift if she were coming towards it. I wouldn’t whisper TWAT in her ear or anything if she made it into said lift.

Farage. I mean. I can’t see me voting Reform but if they give Labour a trouncing in local elections they’re serving a purpose. I always see local elections as a protest vote and a safe way to tell your government you want them to have a bloody nose. But I don’t think they predict the next GE result at this stage.

I will say having come across Farage in person multiple times, he can take someone being extremely rude to him in good part - in person, not on Twitter - and obviously has decades of practice. Reeves would have a breakdown based on her record if a third of that sort of sentence were said in her hearing. I don’t want him in charge though. He’s a good bogeyman.

I watched the first five minutes ish and then got called away - so I'm no help. I think Kemi did well but Starmer engineered a human wall of waffle that meant the thrust of her main point didn't land as well as it could have done.

I agree. I didn’t listen to that speech but words are not spending. It’s kind of interesting and I wonder if any countries looking more to China will feel the same in a couple of decades.

I’ve just been reading an excellent article on the Spectator site by Stephen Daisley. He makes the point, in summary, that Europe will have to flex on Greenland or accept that hundreds of billions will have to spent by European states very soon on defence if the US refuses to prop up Europe’s defence any longer. The prospect of having to raise taxes and cut welfare and health massively to allow for huge defence spending is so difficult to swallow that flexing looks much more likely.

I think Daisley’s spot on, and I think Starmer is likely to end up looking very weak and foolish if he carries on with this supposed hard man rhetoric. If he has any influence in Europe Starmer should be urging them all to accommodate Trump, ghastly as that is, or face painful economic and electoral reality.

Oh, that's interesting. I'll have to have a look. Thank you.

Carney's speech in China the other day talking about the new world order was chilling

He was a bumbler when in the Bank of England.
He's dangerous now imo.

Interesting. Politicians that lean in to I can beat Trump rhetoric for political gain then have to deal with taking from welfare for defence spending.

That economic reality is a hard sell too.

Agreed - Rory Stewart on TRIP saying Europe and UK needs to take a hard line and bear the sanctions…he’s not worried about his business collapsing is he? Also, it’s gesture politics we have no real alternative to US dependence at present…

I had a read and I think he makes a lot of good points. (Took a while to decide if I was going to risk the subscription offer in hope that I'll remember to cancel it on time. 😁 ) I've nicked a few bits that cover the tone:

"Is there any party prepared to tell the public that they must pay more taxes to fund defence expenditure that, if the Ministry of Defence does its job properly, they will never see in action?"

And
"The public thinks it has been struggling and sacrificing all this time. It probably can’t imagine the kind of austerity required to fund a robust national defence. Left, right, and centre; politician, pundit and punter – everyone wants to distance ourselves from Trump’s America. No one wants to pay for it. Until that changes in Britain and across Europe we’ll have to reconcile ourselves to giving our sugar daddy whatever he wants."