Justine says MN is too mean and will tighten-up moderation

[noblegiraffe]

Justine posted this on a low-traffic thread in AIBU and I think it deserves a wider audience than it is currently getting, especially as it is asking posters to report low-level sniping and pile-ons. Perhaps a bigger announcement is planned, I don't know.

"Thanks for raising this - it's something we've been discussing internally as we've noticed the same shift you’re describing and we agree it’s something we need to get a much firmer grip on. Debate is part of Mumsnet’s DNA, but unnecessary meanness isn’t, and it helps absolutely no one.
We’ve already put a plan in place to tighten things up. It’s not just about deleting the really obvious personal attacks, but tackling the low-level sniping and pile ons that drain the life out of threads and discourage people from posting in the first place. That means more proactive involvement from us earlier in a thread, not just sweeping up afterwards.
One thing that really helps is reporting. There are around 25,000 posts a day on here, so we really don’t see that much in real time. If something feels off, please do report it. We promise to read things in context and we’d much rather step in early than let a thread spiral.
Most people on here genuinely want to give support or perspective. When that gets drowned out by needless nastiness, everyone loses. So thank you to everyone who’s raised this. We hear you, we agree with you, and we’re working on it."

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5442610-the-current-state-of-mn-and-how-do-i-stop-reading?reply=148524522&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Oh yes I agree with this! I was responding to the specific case of two posters bickering with each other derailing a thread.

I would never start a thread on MN these days because too often the posters are not helpful or kind, and that's a real shame.

What's missing is the community we used to have. The friendliness and camaraderie, i miss that... been here since 2006 and it was nice chatting to people you recognised and making on-board friendships.

Now those bonds don't really exist, no-one trusts anyone.

Agree

especially if it’s an ableist thread.

So doesn't the discussion forum allow you to calmly explain how the mobility car scheme works in reply?

I agree with this 👆 I've reported horrible people piling onto the OP. Just got a standard reply of they're looking into it! Threads still running and all horrible comments still visible a few days later. I wouldn't waste my time reporting anything now. Think it's down to the OP to report also would help if Mumsnet create an extra rule to cover this.

Advanced search needs to go, or at least be limited to a certain timeframe, imo. I have seen so many threads where posters dig up the OP's posting history to stick the boot in without taking into account that circumstances change, people mature and learn, relationships grow and evolve.

An OP will post AIBU about X, Y, Z? And someone bored and over-invested comes along and replies, "Well, actually, in 1979 you posted this, so YABU. There is this other thread from 1992 from a different username, which is about something totally different but shares some vague similarities; therefore, it must be you, so YABVU."

Then every subsequent poster reads it as fact and also pile on.

I am glad she is cracking down. There are some really nasty posts, particularly late at night. I find that mods are really responsive at taking things down.
What I like is to be able to hear others point of views and experiences on toilet safety so I appreciate debate but based on facts and practicalities. It’s very frustrating when threads get derailed.

In other reincarnations, mumsnet has been invaluable in helping me with my children’s health, the death of family members and GCSEs (thanks @noblegiraffe ). My kids mock me but one even asked ‘what do mumsnetters say?’ when they had a problem! That’s when you know it’s a force for good.

I’ve reported nastiness multiple times - both aimed at me, (under previous username), and at others, as well as personal attacks against other users. I’ve always been told to ‘suck it up’ because MN is all about ‘debate’.

I don’t think things will improve, but it would be nice if they did.

For what was designed as a supportive parenting platform it has become really nasty in places, including to parents. Reddit is actually often a better place to find support now.

Does need a tighten up. I couldn’t believe how a mum whose DD was at Uni and hadn’t been in contact generated such spiteful comment. It’s horrible when your YP goes radio silent for a bit , I have been there and you know in your heart you’re overreacting but you can’t help but worry and this mum, in this position, was subjected to the most vicious comments when she just needed a bit of support.

I hope they will have night-time moderation. In my experience the small hours of the morning tend to bring out some real arseholes.

Absolutely. Dawn raids are really shocking, I guess the problem is that there are very few posters around to report.

Hmmm!

The issue is MN is a business and relies on advertising. The more posts= the more views= the more revenue for MN.

Contentious posts usually = more views (ie 'trending')
Maybe if they ditched 'trending' it would help.

The inherent weakness is non genuine posters. MN often take a look and come back to say they can't find anything odd but they can only go as far as previous usernames and banned posters. A clever poster can get round that .

Someone mentioned that GransNet is kinder.

One reason for that could be no name changes allowed (or only one.)
That means you can be 'followed' around the site and your ID built up quite quickly so it's harder to stay anonymous. It's also a very 'slow site with hardly any traffic compared to this one.

It’s possibly too little too late.

I mean, who could have guessed that letting ableist, racist, goady, pervs and other obvious troll posters run rife would leave the site in the state it’s in? 🤔

No doubt clicks were up for a while so MNHQ were ok with it, but eventually their core demographic have grown tired of it because mumsnet is unrecognisable from the site it was. I know so many women who have left after being on mumsnet for years and others who use it much less.

AIBU is just troll central. So many threads all over the boards are covert and not so covert racism, ableism, benefit bashing etc. Boards that were set up to give people a bit of protection, like black mumsnetters, ND children, private schooling, even the vegan board are full of racists, anti ND, anti private school, anti vegan sentiment. The sex board is full of men, mostly posting creepy stuff for wank fodder and they’ve spread to the relationship board. I could go on. Mumsnet have let this happen!

It’s such a shame because having a mainly female site is such a good thing, but so many women have been driven away by mumsnets decisions/lack of good moderation. I hope they do sort out the issues but I’m not sure it’s possible. Among women I know who used to use mumsnet and those that still do, the sites reputation is bad now.

There's only so many times one can explain it. When the 1000th thread pops up spouting the crap that has been spouted in the other 999 threads, it becomes a little tedious.

It’s the pile ons and bullying that they need to get a handle on. Other forums I’ve been on had much better control of that.

Bullying is basically acceptable on here and that’s what needs to change.

But that rarely happens. Mainly because on immigration there are very strong opinions on both sides, and it quite often degenerates to name calling and accusations, because both sides think they’re right. I see the most vitriol though from those who are pro immigration. I do try to take on board both sides of the coin though, and found quite a few posts on the subject informative, to the point that I’ve changed my mindset on some issues. I think MN at its best can be very educational!

there is the night watch @GoodQueenWenceslaus

That’s awful. I think it’s a good thing if we all think a bit first before piling on to someone who is obviously not a troll. First time I was on here was several year’s ago and it was a discussion about leaving/feeling trapped in an abusive relationship. I said that lack of money was a big contributor to feeling trapped and many more people would be able to leave if they suddenly found themselves independently rich overnight. It was purely hypothetical but the pile on was really bad. I had just recently left my ex who was an alcoholic (thankfully now in long time recovery) so was speaking from a personal pov. The pile on had me running for the hills and I didn’t come back for a few years and under a name change. I felt really attacked.

I got bullied so bad on here i left it for a year.
I was stalked called awful names told to go die.
Bullied because i said i watched a different news platform.
Some of the comments came from teachers.
Abusive privet messages.
One poster was demanding my address & area i live in etc.
A funny one was when i got blamed for the heatwave weather we had years back.
And MN posters always say men are the vile ones.

I think WFH has allowed a lot of posting to happen that wouldn't if in the office, some of it good, some definitely not. I know it goes on, and where there's opportunity it will! That and mind altering substances especially alcohol probably affect some nasty posting responses particularly later at night and at weekends. That's just life.

Same all over SM I think. Anyway I was thinking that "read only" might be an idea for overnight. But that won't stop posts from other time zones will it, duh. Something to consider just the same, or is that just too drastic and daft?

Overall, I seem to manage to skip out of daft/nasty threads and ignore/hide them on the active page. I think it's up to us to filter out the bad posts, report and leave the thread.

As the parent of two autistic kids, the endless threads deriding the needs of autistic people are both depressing and upsetting.

I’ve also switched to Reddit. A shame as I’ve been here since 2010. But it’s not fun here anymore and I’m too scared to start threads.

I would never start a thread, I think people who do are really brave.

I first found mumsnet in the early 2000s and I’ve left for long periods.
I find it much harsher now than I remember it.
I experienced it as a huge hugfest & an incredible miscarriage and TTC support group and also a really witty forum.

Now I post things and usually get ignored 😂. I’m probably too old. But I think disagreements used to be far more diplomatic - but that’s changed everywhere hasn’t it?