Justine says MN is too mean and will tighten-up moderation

[noblegiraffe]

Justine posted this on a low-traffic thread in AIBU and I think it deserves a wider audience than it is currently getting, especially as it is asking posters to report low-level sniping and pile-ons. Perhaps a bigger announcement is planned, I don't know.

"Thanks for raising this - it's something we've been discussing internally as we've noticed the same shift you’re describing and we agree it’s something we need to get a much firmer grip on. Debate is part of Mumsnet’s DNA, but unnecessary meanness isn’t, and it helps absolutely no one.
We’ve already put a plan in place to tighten things up. It’s not just about deleting the really obvious personal attacks, but tackling the low-level sniping and pile ons that drain the life out of threads and discourage people from posting in the first place. That means more proactive involvement from us earlier in a thread, not just sweeping up afterwards.
One thing that really helps is reporting. There are around 25,000 posts a day on here, so we really don’t see that much in real time. If something feels off, please do report it. We promise to read things in context and we’d much rather step in early than let a thread spiral.
Most people on here genuinely want to give support or perspective. When that gets drowned out by needless nastiness, everyone loses. So thank you to everyone who’s raised this. We hear you, we agree with you, and we’re working on it."

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5442610-the-current-state-of-mn-and-how-do-i-stop-reading?reply=148524522&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Eureka! Much needed imo. I've seen some posts recently that are beyond the pale.

Ah, thank you.
Sadly where once I would have felt disenfranchised and cared enough to want to follow it up, I just shrugged my shoulders at what appeared to have happened as it didn't feel like losing it would make any difference.

I welcome MN taking the opportunity to review their approach to moderation, but the proof will be in the pudding as to whether it will actually improve anything.

As things stand at the moment, people can sometimes get deleted for incredibly minor transgressions - for example, I saw one post get deleted because the poster had referred to the OP as being "bonkers". On the other end of the spectrum, people can post deliberately inflammatory disinformation with the clear intention of whipping up hate towards certain groups, and this is left to stand, with those reporting being instructed that they should "feel free to challenge the poster on the thread" .

If the revised approach is going to result in more deletions of the former type, then that's likely to just result in threads being harder to follow. If they're going to tighten up on posts of the latter type, that would be extremely welcome.

Cracking down on the most egregious comments doesn't have to equate to 'mums huns', though. Robust debate is a completely different thing to some of the blatant vileness I've seen on here recently, perhaps you haven't seen as much of it. IMO it would be perfectly possible to crack down on the worst excesses without compromising the spirit of free and open debate.

Yeah, I don't bother reporting as much now as I used to. I will still do it for the most extreme posts, but I don't bother now for the low level shit like marketing posts etc. MN have made it harder to report, so I will leave them to police this stuff for themselves now.

I hope they do take action. I was reading a couple of threads yesterday morning and the name calling was disgusting. I think some posters just come on ther to start fights. Very odd.

Agree @MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack I was relieved to see an inflammatory thread about autism and a certain historical figure being deleted this morning as it became increasingly obvious where the OP was heading.

That's good. I didn't see that one, but glad to hear that it got zapped.

I think maybe sometimes people get frustrated with OPs who perhaps are just looking for a certain answer and bat everything back or ignore advice? … or the trolls/fake posts etc

other times though it’s just people just hiding behind a keyboard to be their true bitchy selfs

I get frustrated by people posting the same thing that’s already been said multiple times. That’s when it feels like a pile on.

If OP has made a mistake, been confused, or done the wrong thing, she doesn’t need people to bang on about it several days later.

It’s well worth reading page one, a page in the middle and the last page to get a feel for what’s happening before throwing in your spiteful ‘pearl of wisdom’ that echoes everyone else.

Agree with you 100% ! Can guarantee that if a poster comes across as poorly educated etc ,the bullies turn up with really unpleasant replies or deliberately offer solutions that the OP would not be able to achieve!

I wonder if people are now more used to the dynamics of places like Twitter where you plonk a comment about the original post with no expectation that you read anyone else’s comments. This is a discussion forum where you are expected to follow the flow of the discussion but most social media isn’t like that any more.

I suppose if people are less confident that the op is a real person posting in good faith - rather than an AI post, someone from Reddit trying to cause trouble, or other varieties of trolling - then they are less likely to see the other poster as a fellow human which will colour their interaction style whether consciously or not.

I do think the volume of bad faith posts/posters has had a dehumanising effect on the site culture. For instance, you're not going to be as patient or generous with advice if you always feel 50:50 on whether posters are just on the wind up or not.

If they're going to tackle "pile ons" I hope they start tackling all the rampant ableism and abuse towards the neuro-divergent community.

There are many users on here (myself included) who are autistic or have ADHD and the nastiness and unpleasantness towards us is almost unrivalled.

There are a lot of goady posts about autistic people and immigration. I’m startingn to think they’re bots or poltical interference.

I somewhat agree, although "cancel the cheque" was nearly a decade ago so it's not that new of a phenomenon.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_classics/2630932-Post-wedding-message-please-help-me-what-the-hell-do-I-say

There are several communities on here who would say the same thing about their own community.

It’s obviously being dealt with poorly across the board.

I’m not sure I agree with this. I started a thread recently, making it clear I was genuinely up for debate, and most of the hundreds of responses were thoughtful, polite and reasoned. Just what I wanted.

Ironically, the first response was bitter, arrogant and insulting, and I thought ‘oh, here we go,’ but I think I recognised the writing style of that poster, who is a total shit-stirrer.

Possibly there are repeat offenders, who bring absolutely nothing to the table, who they’d like to get rid of.

Yes, and the total misinformation about disibility benefits. Although I'm unsure if Justine is au fait with the benefits system?

Yes. Some of the behaviour is really playground stuff. It should get you deleted and then banned eventually.

Plus really revealing where people put their energy. How difficult is it to be considered when you respond to someone? The tone can be quite unpleasant

just read the comments section in the Telegraph, eye opening.
it seems the comments section in the Guardian is mostly not open. presumably there is a reason for this.

Actually, I've just remembered that I have had a few colleagues comment recently that they can't believe the level of vitriol they see some people posting on LinkedIn - under their own names, linked to their employer. So it might not be unique to MN.

This is the issue.

A lit of the time, the OP never returns, which leads to irritation and sniping amongst those left on the thread.

There's just no debate or thoughtful / insightful discussion anymore. It's turning into Facebook with basic-level comments.

Yes, was going to post similar. The vast majority of those I report get removed. I don't do it very often as I have a fairly wide tolerance of jokey snark but it's been more often recently as the posts have been plain cunty.