Justine says MN is too mean and will tighten-up moderation

[noblegiraffe]

Justine posted this on a low-traffic thread in AIBU and I think it deserves a wider audience than it is currently getting, especially as it is asking posters to report low-level sniping and pile-ons. Perhaps a bigger announcement is planned, I don't know.

"Thanks for raising this - it's something we've been discussing internally as we've noticed the same shift you’re describing and we agree it’s something we need to get a much firmer grip on. Debate is part of Mumsnet’s DNA, but unnecessary meanness isn’t, and it helps absolutely no one.
We’ve already put a plan in place to tighten things up. It’s not just about deleting the really obvious personal attacks, but tackling the low-level sniping and pile ons that drain the life out of threads and discourage people from posting in the first place. That means more proactive involvement from us earlier in a thread, not just sweeping up afterwards.
One thing that really helps is reporting. There are around 25,000 posts a day on here, so we really don’t see that much in real time. If something feels off, please do report it. We promise to read things in context and we’d much rather step in early than let a thread spiral.
Most people on here genuinely want to give support or perspective. When that gets drowned out by needless nastiness, everyone loses. So thank you to everyone who’s raised this. We hear you, we agree with you, and we’re working on it."

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5442610-the-current-state-of-mn-and-how-do-i-stop-reading?reply=148524522&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Lets see if anything changes. Most reports just get a standard 'we are looking into it' reply and nothing changes.

25k posts a day? Would have thought it was more than that.

That's good. Hopefully they will do what they say they will.

Hopefully that will put a stop to the persistent snipers.

I'm not sure that dealing with the nastiness will restore MN though, there seem to be far fewer people around who want an actual discussion about anything. I'm not sure if they've all left or if they're all now siloed into threads which are onto their 100th iteration and are impenetrable to outsiders.

I can't say that's my experience. Almost everytime I've reported something it's been deleted. And usually fairly promptly.

Twice (in about 15 years) I've reported something and they've came back to say that as the person being spoken about is famous, really hateful comments can stand. I disagree with this approach.

I don't want it to turn into mums huns though. One person's sniping is another person's robustness. I think it possibly is becoming slightly more prevalent but I think that's a reflection on people's wider societal frustrations. I'm not advocating for pile-ons, obviously but there are people who truly are deluded, idiots, rude, wrong, entitled etc and benefit from being told as much. If we all just have to make soothing tones (Celia), then there will be a mass exodus.

Almost everytime I've reported something it's been deleted. And usually fairly promptly.

In my experience if someone is being a total bellend winding people up all over a thread and you report them, either the single post that you reported is deleted and not the rest of the bellendery, which people then continue to respond to, or the post isn't deleted because it's not that bad in isolation. And who can be arsed to go and report every single post on a thread that a poster has made when what you actually want is for the mod to read the thread for themselves?

it is not just on mumsnet
it is Everywhere on line

I think there has already been the mass exodus. Have you not noticed how quiet it is?

This has been my experience too. I don't understand the reasoning behind their position on famous people. There's a quite bitchy thread on here at the moment about a radio presenter which has been allowed to stand, for example. Famous people (and their relatives) have feelings too.

Great - look forward to seeing this in practice. If you can't find a way to express yourself on MN without straying into sniper territory then you need to be directed away from the keyboard.

Not everywhere. I'd avoided reddit for years associating it mainly with incel types, but found myself on some higher education subs there recently and was really pleasantly surprised by how nice all the posters are to each other. Same on The Student Room. Having been on mumsnet for almost two decades, I'd got used to the AIBU harshness of debate and it was a real breath of fresh air to see chats unfolding where people were positive and meanness really had no place.

Sure there are nasty subs there too, no doubt, but it was heartening that it's not everywhere and that especially young people can be much kinder by default. Course there are kinder and supportive parts of mumsnet, but there's definitely a real gloves-off mentality with the pile-ons so on. More moderation can only help.

Let’s hope it stops some of the awful posts about people with disabilities which have been on here recently then

Thanks for sharing @noblegiraffe

I hope they do tighten up.

I posted a thread (NC) and asked about MN. 79% of those that contributed said that MN has lost it’s way.

I have continued to report. Frustratingly even when posts clearly break talk guidelines, especially under posting misinformation - and even when hard evidence is provided of lies, the email response from MNHQ is that they like to encourage healthy debate. Dangerous in current climates.

I've calmed a bit and distanced myself, reading and posting much less. Otherwise I would end my registration.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5418716-aibu-that-sadly-mn-is-losing-its-way

Thanks for highlighting this @noblegiraffe

I do hope MNHQ will also go back to cracking down on people who pull others up on their poor grammar and spelling.

To me it comes across as low level bullying disguised as 'But I'm just educating them'.

When in reality those posters are just looking down upon those who they see as the 'uneducated'.

Nasty behaviour that appears to be getting worse.

I was on the original thread for this and commented there too.

I agree with you to an extent regarding the Mums hun but this is not the point here. For me the problem is the deliberate and persistent twisting of an OP to detract from the original post, this then becomes a pile on and the OP just leaves. They are not adding helpful opinions or debate but are mocking and looking for a fight. It is tedious now and is happening on so many threads. I have been here for 22 years and have gained so much from MN but it has undoubtably got more vicious over time. I am all for a good debate and difference of opinions but this is not what is being discussed.

So am I alone in not appearing to have a report button anymore?

TBH it hasn't even mattered really, as I'd already pulled back a lot of posting from the main boards, as not interested in supporting MN's direction of monetizing hatred which I assume is a calculated business decision.

I don't know what Justine said, but I feel it's a lot less mean than say, a year or two ago.

The report button is now hidden in the 3 dots. It needs putting back to it's original place. So it's easy for people to see.

not interested in supporting MN's direction of monetizing hatred which I assume is a calculated business decision

Absolutely - I feel they have sold out and it will be the downfall. Less posters and the site turns into an echo chamber of misinformation and hatred.

( I do have a well used report button though - of no use in reality)

It says in the OP what Justine said.

hiding the report button was a daft move, in that case. Is there a thread on Site Stuff about this?

MN has always had a vicious streak. I’ve been on here for ages, and I remember posting on a Christmas thread in 2005, in which people were talking about what they were doing at that moment (it was Christmas Eve). DS1 was 4 months old, I’d had multiple rounds of IVF, and had split with my partner soon after DS’s birth. It had been an emotional time, and I posted something about how happy I was to finally be a mum at Christmas. I was teased mercilessly, asked if I was on drugs etc. Really unnecessarily catty comments.

I’ve actually pivoted on to Reddit a lot recently and I quite agree. I dislike the threading system for replies but the general tone is much more civil, more intelligent and WAY funnier. You can drop a joke and people just get it without sniping, poking holes or generally being dim or sour about it. I’ve been on MN for a long time and I remember it used to be laugh out loud funny on a daily basis. Now a lot of people seem to have a had a complete sense of humour removal.

They are selling Mumsnet to Elon Musk and Elon doesn't like sniping and nastiness.