What do women who want a family do now we all think men are useless?

[ClawsandEffect]

It's OK for me to think 'fuck 'em'. I'm old. Been there. Done that. Had the family and the divorce.

BUT if you're heterosexual AND want a family but realise that most men (#notallmen) are not viable options, what DO you do/plan to do?

Genuinely interested.

I have also wondered this. I'm old and have done the husband and the kids thing (no divorce...yet?!) but I work with lots of young women who are single and on the dating scene and I am often horrified at the stories they tell me about what it's like out there in the dating trenches. It doesn't sound at all like how dating used to be when I was in my twenties. You'd go out with a group of mates, meet a friend of a friend you liked the look of, get pissed, get off with them, get their number...simple.

Now it sounds like online dating has made it commodified. Long talking stages that create a sense of false intimacy and then meet up for sex before getting ghosted and he's onto the next one before they've even blocked him. I feel so sorry for these young women. I know people go on about the male loneliness epidemic but it honestly sounds like they're not really helping themselves by dating for sex (often shit sex that involves choking and all that pornified shit) and then ghosting or doing the slow fade.

I'm sure there will be a lot of posts on this thread about 'not all men' and 'my Nigel is perfect', but I'm sorry, from what I'm hearing, there is something very wrong with many young men out there right now. It makes me terrified for both my daughters and my son.

In what way do they make good husbands? What was the criteria they were assessed against? And what studies have been used to conclude this? Because you'd presumably need to have studied a large pool of women who had experienced marriage to men of these ethnicities AND men who were not to compare the experience? And how was it decided that their positive traits were due to their ethnicity rather than their character?

Regardless of his feelings? Well that’s pretty shitty.

I don't think that men are inherently bad, more that society enables them to become bad, the route toward becoming predatory and exploitative is more direct than it is for women.
I think as a society we need to find ways to incentivise mem to express their masculinity in a positive way. We also need ways to help women to be less submissive, to stand up to men early on so that men don't get a taste for dominating women.

Aren’t they? Who says they aren’t? Depression is highest amongst women in the western hemisphere which would suggest that most of that is down to our treatment at the hands of men.

A big mountain of nonsense, hate and generalising here but it's Friday so we were due a man hating post or 3.

I don't know the men you know, OP but I feel sorry for you that you are not surrounded by good men as I am (and I am sure most others are, too).

You are no better than Andrew bloody Tate.

You are also effectively calling all the women who have married these majority of the male population 'non viable options' you so eloquently write of, as stupid too by default.

Stupid is as stupid does.

This may be true at times, but only a few weeks ago someone started a thread to encourage MNetters to appreciate all the good men in their lives.

It was a lovely thread for the first few posts but then as usual, it was ruined by posters who couldn't stand the idea of it.

100% sperm donor. Family is what you make it, and it doesnt have to have a man in it, if you dont want 🤷‍♀️

Why should any of us give a darn about men’s feelings? They don’t care about us, so to hell with them. I wish them nothing but the worst.

I don’t think I’d do it much different if I was young again. I’d still try to find a good man as I know they do exist (would definitely choose a different one than the one I did choose though!). I would still leave him if he turned out to be a sub par misogynist once children arrived. I’m hopeful that with a couple of generations of women leaving such men and raising their boys not to be like their fathers my grandchildren could have happy marriages.

I would absolutely love to team up with another single mum in the meantime. Share the childcare and the housework, gain some adult company if an evening and have someone to holiday with etc. if my sister wasn’t happily married I’m sure that we would have teamed up like this

Well you made the claim so it's on you to provide the evidence.

I'm not sure that does suggest that. Maybe depression rates in women aren't treated/recorded very well in the countries you mentioned.

Sadly there is quite a lot of evidence for the violence, arrogance and entitlement of men, specifically men, as a group.

I would also add that there is evidence for the existence of culture and for the many beneficial elements in European or other civilised cultures, when you look at the men in cultures of the Near East or in Africa, esp Sudan right now, filming themselves celebrating murder, rape, torture and genocide even against kids. But sex differences are real at the root.

What do we do about it? Remember culture and empower women.

Would this be open and consentual with the dad? Would you explain the plan to him?

Oh they're 'said to be'? 👀

Thank you for your stellar contribution then.

Sorry you’re so unhappy.

We find men we think are decent and have children with them. Honestly, I am in my early 30s and don’t see my partner or friends’ partners as awful. I know plenty of men who pull their weight at home. And I also know plenty of women who don’t consider this at all as a factor when choosing a partner or before deciding to have kids.

Whatever their reasons, I think they both have a very unhealthy and socially damaging outlook when they paint every member of the opposite sex as 'not good enough'.

Fair enough if there isn't a single person out there whom you would consider good enough to be a partner - entirely your choice; but that doesn't give anybody the right to seek to indoctrinate people far and wide into dismissing the value or worthiness of half of the population at a stroke - whether that be Andrew Tate and his pathetic, disgusting misogyny or somebody on MN saying "Well, we all know that all men are completely useless, right...?"

It's just another lazy prejudice and form of bigotry like many others - and society as a whole is very much the poorer for those who automatically form their negative opinions of vast sections of the world/community in this way.

It's interesting to note that lesbian couples have a higher divorce rate than either gay or heterosexual couples.

Are you aware of that?

https://www.them.us/story/lesbian-marriages-weddings-divorce-rate-study-reasons-why#:~:text=Within%2010%20years%20of%20marriage,queer%20couples%20moved%20in%20together.

https://freedomforallamericans.org/lesbian-divorce-rate/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_of_same-sex_couples

Sorry to disappoint but no. An older woman watching the current social movement of younger women, the incel movement, the male loneliness epidemic and the big growth in younger women saying they don't want a relationship.

It just interests me as a sociological trend in a macro sense. But also in the very micro sense, as in, IF a woman does want a family but is existing in this moment in time, what DOES she do?

I think we're in flux socially, in relation to gender roles. But that isn't a lot of use, if you're trying to live your life and want children etc.

My sons met their gf’s in real life scenarios, neither has dated through OLD. I’m sure that’s been a good contributor to their relationships being healthy and more like old fashioned ‘courting’. They got to know each other first and liked each other enough to start dating. I do believe OLD has been very bad for younger ones, maybe not so bad for older (seniors) who have become widowed or divorced, and can be a good way to meet as your social life dwindled through age.

I absolutely don't think all men are useless but I did choose to have kids by myself rather than with one of them so I guess that says it all :)

Many of the posters on Mumsnet seem to think men are useless, in the real world, where most of us live, they are certainly not. 🙄
I for one have a husband, son and grandsons.. they are lovely, caring considerate men...the opposite of 'useless'.

Yes, I think this is the preferred option. But if you get to 30ish and haven't found him, what next?

Sort of like how women who have had negative experiences and come looking for advice or empathy get the nasty comments about how they made a bad choice as not all men are like this? I don’t think I e ever read a single thread without some high horse victim blaming comments.

so you don’t believe the evidence that DLA significant number of men are treating women badly (rape and sexual assault statistics, DV statistics, absent fathers not financially contributing etc etc). So then you just shouldn’t engage in these threads. You have the free speech to comment that that has not been your experience I don’t think even the high horse victim blaming comments should be sensored. But you should know how ignorant such comments from the privileged look to those of us women who are the victims of the stats you refuse to acknowledge.

There's gonna be sooooo many single childless people in their 40s in ten years time. The relationship and birth rate stats are already showing the trend. Too many people getting brainwashed by social media into hating the opposite sex and relying upon the dating app algorithms.