Odd message from new piano teacher

[Plainplantain]

DD (7) has done a bit of piano at school for the last 2 years. We are not happy with her progress, she doesn't seem to be getting the full 30 mins and she misses different subjects at school to do her classes. So we gave her teacher her notice and started looking for someone else outside school.

We found someone who advertised locally in a shop window. We looked him up online and were happy. Spoke to him on the phone, he said he comes to pupils homes and that it's very important that I stay with them in the room. All good.

He came yesterday after DD's school. I let him in and he got on with the lesson, I sat in the living room with them but about 2 meters behind not interfering with the lesson. He turned to me very assertively and said I have to stay next to them and watch so I know how to help DD with her practice. I complied and moved next to them.

He worked with DD on a song that was a little challenging for her and he said for now she could just work on half of it. Then we had a discussion about the books we needed to buy and then he started packing away. So I said to him, would it be ok for him to play the song she needs to work on so she knows what it is supposed to sound like and what to aim for. He said, oh of course.. sat at the piano and played the song beautifully. DD was very inspired and after he left, she practiced and it sounded almost as it should so that was definitely worth it.

Today in the afternoon (24 hours later) I got this message from him saying very bluntly that I don't need to tell him that he has to play the song for DD. She will get plenty of opportunities to hear him play and that he is a qualified teacher and has been teaching for 32 years and knows what he's doing. My role is to just sit and watch so I know how to help DD. Then he said see you all next week at 4pm.

I'm perplexed. I couldn't have been more polite and accommodating, didn't ask many questions, I went along with everything he asked.. and I just find it rude and so unnecessary. I didn't want to interfere in the lesson at all and I was happy to sit back and watch from a distance. It just left a bad taste in my mouth and I wonder if its a red flag and there is more to come.

I have not replied as I found it so odd!

Can anyone offer some perspective?

Ours have too.

Music lessons at school I have not been required to attend ( though have been asked on occasion to drop in to one or two to help keep a dialogue up ).

However for music lessons outside school I have always sat in the room. It happened very naturally; we just arrived with little people the first time and I was simply offered a seat. Teacher would turn round to discuss things here and there like “ if Dc finds the second bit tricky, just practice to x” etc. I wasn’t left feeling that it was odd I was there, rather that I was part of the practice side of things and also in reality I would otherwise have sat in the car. I sat behind and about 2 metres away.

I have on occasion done the same as op and asked the teacher to play the piece and have had mixed reactions. One explained to me that because Dc “ had a good ear” he wanted them to practice the reading and that hearing it first made it too easy for them to glean information aurally that he wanted them to pick up visually. This does make sense.

Others have been happy to play it first ( and it does help, though may be a shortcut for some.)

I don’t want to cause offence by saying this as we are actually family friends with some of my old music teachers from growing up so I do have immense respect and often fondness, but I have found music teachers can have quite emotional reactions to things you don’t expect. I’m not sure if it’s the unusual dynamic of being more directly “ employed “ by the parent than, say, a school teacher and do they feel the need to state boundaries about how they operate, or if it’s more linked to the sort of emotional temperament that makes them good at what is fundamentally quite an expressive art. But I have certainly had more emotional responses to things like, say, missing a lesson for illness.

Wanting parent to be in the room isn't a red flag. It's wise for a professional to avoid being on their own with the child if it can be avoided, to protect against false allegations

My dd had a very good piano teacher for many years who had quite strict rules about how she ran her lessons. It was ok with us as my dd really wanted to play well, she loved practising and the teacher was a good teacher & kind, just had her rules.

One was parent involvement - she wanted parents to observe the lesson to be able to help the child correctly during the week so that they made progress. Your dc will not remember over a whole week much of what she is told in a 30 mins lesson. Otherwise the teacher will spend a lot of time repeating each lesson.

Secondly was no parental interference - so no trying to direct what the teacher is doing, tell the teacher to play this or that. The parents role was to observe to be able to help the child practice correctly during the week.

But this approach doesn’t sound like the right fit for you. He wants you to observe so that you can help your dd practice correctly until the next lesson. She will improve faster that way. You see it as time for you to spend doing something else. He sounds a bit officious about the request to play, maybe he is a bit tired of parents who can’t just sit & observe but have to start getting involved. Anyway I think you should get a new teacher, with an approach that suits you better - just bear in mind that your dd will not learn as quickly if you don’t observe & help in some way - which was your complaint about the first teacher!

The DBS check was my first thought!

He sounds like a right nob.. it's as if he's employing YOU as an assistant and is setting the rules for what you can and can't do. In this case you can't do anything, despite the fact that he's teaching your child!

I'd send this back...

Thanks for the lesson on Tuesday. After thinking it over, we’ve decided to find another teacher.
To be honest, your message the next day felt a bit out of line. I’d made a polite and helpful suggestion - and while you said you usually play pieces for pupils, you hadn’t done so until I asked. It clearly helped my daughter engage, and she was really motivated afterwards.
Since you expect me to sit in and support her practice, it feels like I’m being asked to take an active role - which is fine, but then I should also be able to offer the odd bit of input without being shut down. We’re paying for a service, and mutual respect matters.
It’s clear this isn’t quite the right fit for us, so we’ll leave it here.

I literally sat there the whole time quietly. I complied with his requests, I agreed with the books he was asking me to buy. Very very far away from being 'controlling' or trying to structure the lesson for him, that's why I'm so shocked at his message. I couldn't be more polite and trying not to interfere.

Thats a good reply, thank you.

Thats a very good one! Thank you.

If you have this man back in your home then your radar is seriously off
fook I think I struggle with boundaries sometimes but this one would not be darkening my doorstep ever again

I would be honest in your reply to him (and put the onus on him to terminate the lessons if he cannot adapt his communication, especially if there is a contract/notice period)

Hi Piano tutor

Thank you for your message. I just wanted to say that I found your reply quite blunt and somewhat condescending in tone and it has made me feel uncomfortable. I completely understand and respect your experience and dd otherwise enjoyed and learnt a lot in the lesson, but I am concerned about this dynamic and whether it is a good fit for us as I will not be made to feel uncomfortable like this in future lessons in my own home.

I’m happy to continue if we can find a way to communicate with mutual respect and openness, but if that doesn’t feel workable, I understand if you wish to terminate the lessons now and we will make other arrangements.

Respectfully,
Plainplantain

But you are keeping time and you are directing the lesson by voicing what you think is important rather than letting that first lesson flow naturally.
the message is blunt and direct … it has to be so both sides are clear about expectations.

was this the only comment you made during the lesson? The only suggestion you made? Did you make any other contributions to the lesson? If not, I’d definitely stop further lessons and the rudeness of his message would put me off letting him anywhere near my home again.

Nothing at all! I have not made any other suggestions, I have sat quietly and listened to everything he was saying, you can see in his message mentioning my request to play the song for DD. He talks a lot!

Yes I am also a piano teacher and I also give parents and the children the option to sit in. Sometimes the children really don't want their parents there.
I don't ask any of the parents to sit next to the piano and watch. They usually sit and fiddle on their tablets or phones!
If anything specific comes up during the lesson I'd like them to keep an eye on during the week I invite them to come over and have a look and at the end I'll go over what work has to be done that week.
As the children get older I place more emphasis on the child being responsible and usually both children and parents decide not to have the parent in the room as they reach 9 or 10 or so.

I don't mind if a parent makes a suggestion or wants to record me playing a piece or if they ask a couple of questions as long as it doesn't start to become intrusive and disrupt the flow of the lesson but actually I can't really remember anyone doing that to such an extent that it became annoying.

I thought his text was rude and unnecessary. If the only thing you asked all lesson was to have the piece played so your daughter could hear it, then he has gone over the top. If you asked or suggested lots of things (doesn't sound like you did) then he has overreacted. However, the violin teacher I had for years from the age of 4 was extremely gruff and rude and my mother wanted to stop the lessons after 3 weeks but I really liked him, we got on very well, despite his gruffness and I did extremely well with him, winning competitions and getting into prestigious local and national orchestras!

Are you in a trial period? What are the terms and conditions? If you are really uncomfortable with him you could stop the lessons now, depending on the terms and conditions. Or do you think he might be ok once he gets to know you and realizes you aren't going to "interfere" all the time or ask him right at the end of the lesson to play a piece, or answer some complicated question. It might have been the fact he was actually packing up and was needing to get on to the next lesson that annoyed him. I don't like it when parents do that because it then makes me late but I do handle it gently and politely and wouldn't send a rude text about it.

Same, it's one thing to say you asked politely OP, but again, telling him how to do his job on day one would make him think this is how you'll behave going forward.
There are parents who interfere and think they know best, which isn't helpful.

His message is direct and probably replied when doing his admin at an allocated time, as opposed to some saying he was seething over it.

Is he foreign OP, not a blanket thing but some nationalities are blunt and to the point.

If you don't feel comfortable though, no point going foward.

I think this is an excellent response. I would also add within it that it is to see if we are a good fit.

But if that was the case why didn’t he just politely explain that at the time?

I don't know, I'm not him.

In short, I don’t think he is the only teacher to expect you to sit in the room.

I also have had a teacher explain why they didn’t want to play the piece in advance for my Dc and I fully comprehended the rationale.

However, it does sound as though he has not managed to convey these things in a way you felt comfortable with and for that reason I suspect it might become an embattled relationship which you might as well head off and extricate yourself from at this early stage.

However, because I’m not sure the actual substance of what he has conveyed is too “out there” ( I’ve had both, but better explained and managed and I was fine with it), I do think some of the messages to him suggested on this thread are unnecessarily aggressive and inflammatory. I don’t think you need to end things on a sour note; it’s within your power to simply say obliquely you didn’t feel it was a great fit. I don’t think all the “ I will NOT be made to feel … etc etc” is needed. It’s just making things more unpleasant than required. If he comes back to challenge you, you can critique his approach more then.

The third one could well be a good fit.

I have many students who have had multiple teachers before me where it hasn't been a good fit. Some of my current students have been with me for 5+ years having not got on with previous teachers.

Many teachers nowadays teach how to play pieces rather than equipping kids with the musical skills to learn to play many pieces well. I have kids come to me who have been learning for two years with another teacher yet can't show me where to find an F on the piano or on the music but have sat their Grade 1 exam. Crap music teachers are rife and I'm beginning to realise only a minority are ensuring foundations are laid in music and the instrument so that they can progress beyond learning pieces almost by rote.

I agree with pp that someone who has been teaching for 30 years yet has to advertise in shop windows is rather telling that there is something amiss. I haven't had to advertise for years as I have a steady flow of students who come to me on recommendation from current students. If students enjoy their lessons and/or play well people will ask who teaches them.

Another note on the safeguarding side is that teachers are actually advised by the two leading professional membership organisations not to teach in a room alone as it leaves them open to accusation. I don't have parents in the room during lessons but I have to accept I am choosing to take a risk with this approach. I do however teach in the front room where parents and anyone else can see in and know that the lessons are taking place in an appropriate manner. The fact this teacher wants the parent close by is not an indication that he has history for inappropriate behaviour - he's probably just sensibly covering his back.

And in fairness the suggestion that he will decide when the dd is ready to hear the piece in full might be a nod to the point you reference about really learning to play rather than getting so you can “ replicate” a piece- something which to be honest I was able to do quite well by ear rather then understanding how to read as well as I should have.

Good attempt at evasion, but the point is that if this was his intention he could/should have politely explained at the time. As I think you know.

Thank you everyone. It's good to hear everyone's perspective and I am trying to understand his point of view as well.

But I have this ick about him now and not sure I could get past this. I am wondering what comes next and what else will I be told off about.

Taking some of pp replies, an experienced teacher would not have his details posted on a shop window. We contacted a few teachers in the area and they were all fully booked, we had to put DD on a waiting list with one of them. He doesn't seem to have availability issues and he has no other students on Tue.

Someone asked if he is foreign, no, he is English and talks very posh, lives in a very affluent area. (He also has a physical disability but I didn't want to bring that into my thread, it's irrelevant).

I'm on the other hand foreign but I'm sure I could pull off a more tactful message and certainly would not be sending one 24hrs later. I'd have probably made a comment about it at the time if I felt like someone was questioning my teaching.

How are you supposed to support her practice if YOU don't know what the song is supposed to sound like? Tbh he just sounds like an arse to me and if I wanted to listen to one, I'd fart.

Exactly!!