What's wrong with sleepovers?

[PeatandDieselfan]

Accidentally watched a reel on Facebook the other day with an "influencer mommy" holding her PFB and boasting about all the things her baby will not be allowed to do over the next couple of decades, which included sleepovers (cue left-right wagging of perfectly manicured finger.) I didn't understand what she was on about, and obviously dismissed it as nonsense and gave my head a little wobble for even losing time to watching said nonsense, and went about my day.

Since then, I have noticed a few mentions on here of people not allowing their children to have sleepovers, or not before secondary school. I am genuinely interested why? Because, in my experience, sleepovers are a huge thrill for 6-11 year olds, mine loved it at that age, but now they teenagers/almost teenagers sleepovers aren't really "a thing" any more - they do different things with friends.

So why are parents anti-sleepover? I mean, I know it can be a pain to host them (sometimes) and kids are like zombies the next day, but they have a lot of fun, and it's a pretty short phase in the greater scheme of things, so why not? If it's a safeguarding thing, surely you could just have a rule about only with friends where you already know the parents/ have had a few successful playdates first, rather than a blanket (see what I did there!) ban?

@HazelNewt The gov don't record those statistics but googling brings up plenty of prosecutions against nursery workers.

If you believe your child is actually safer in someone else’s home than their own then that’s a bit of a problem isn’t it?

This is the bit you are not understanding.

Statistically a dc is more at risk in their home because their family members live with them...young dc are also more at risk of an accident at home.

I don't trust anyone, that's why

I didn’t believe it either so googled and found this https://theconversation.com/a-survey-found-1-in-6-men-admit-sexual-feelings-for-children-so-is-paedophilia-increasing-218124

'My mum never let me go to sleepovers, at the time I never understood and used to get annoyed about it. I later found out her own father used to sexually abuse her.'

Well that doesn't make sense. Your dm would have been safer at sleepovers!

Kids love sleepovers, you get to know the parents as much as you can at the school gates. You have their kids to play see who the little shits are, who are well mannered kids then teach your kids about safety and you let them have fun.

They could be abused at school but I presume we all sent them there.

But is that an interest in under 18s or actual small children (say under 12)?

Its the risk of SA. Simple as that.

It’s far more common than you realise

@coxesorangepippin do you make that clear to people?

My friends mum told her DH & brothers that if they ever did anything inappropriate with her dc she would kill them (carried some weight as her own dad was dodgy to put it mildly) etc. my friend & I thought it was an awful thing to even think & put out there but as we got older we thought maybe it was a good thing. Sexual abuse thrives in secrecy & with parents who are oblivious or turn a blind eye. Just discussing it creates more transparency.

I thought it would probably be that Australian study, I've seen it before. It is one study, drawing on a pretty small sample size. I'm not saying it is completely debunked, but I wouldn't extraoplate from it that nearly a fifth of men have sexual feelings towards children (which it also doesn't say, it says 'minors', ie under 18s. That could mean a 22 year old fancying a 17 year old, which doesn't sound nearly as sensational) I get the need for safegauarding, and I'm not saying people shouldn't take sensible precautions, but I sometimes think that these risks are exaggerated out of all proportion.

5 kids or more in a room, you think a man is going to whisk one of them away unnoticed by the other kids or the mother?

It's the isolated kids sat at home that I'd be more worried about.

I didn’t believe it either so googled and found this https://theconversation.com/a-survey-found-1-in-6-men-admit-sexual-feelings-for-children-so-is-paedophilia-increasing-2181244*

Slightly disingenuous as it says

"One in six (or 15.1% of) Australian men aged over 18 recently surveyed said they had sexual feelings for a child or teen younger than 18 years."

There is a difference between an 18 yr old being attracted to an 18 yr old as opposed to an 8yr old.

I think far more men than we think are attracted to 15-18 yr old girls & I think that's the age a girl is most likely to get raped, assaulted.

I allowed sleepovers with friends who's parents I knew and trusted and only once my children were 7 or 8. Before that they only stayed with grandparents or my sister. I do understand that there is a very small risk in having your children stay with another family but I don't think you can eliminate all risk unless you never allow your children out of your sight. Statistically, children are most likely to be abused by someone in their own family, does that mean we should never let them be looked after by a grandad or an uncle or a stepdad? We take risks with our children all the time - every time we put them in the car, let them walk to a friend's house or cross a road. We have to accept that life is full of risk but that we can see when the benefit outweighs the risk.

I think generally post Covid some children and parents are just used to being together and some parents or child get anxious about being apart.
People are more cautious and wary of abuse happening if child is sleeping in home where don’t know adults well. They might know mum socially but who else is there - mums bf? Older teen step sibling?
We are seeing it in brownies and guides that some parents don’t want to send children to pack holiday or trips overnight and that’s with dbs checked adults. Some parents that do send child are extremely anxious eg air tagging children or constantly messaging them.

Think of it this way - would you allow your child to walk home alone in the dark at 12? Now look at the relative risk. She’s safer walking home.

You will hear on MN many dramatic stories of all the predators at kids' sleepovers but in my experience and those of everyone I know sleepovers are just a fun thing kids do. My teen is 15 and still goes to her friends for sleepovers (and had done since a small kid) and I have hosted many sleepovers for her friends with no incidents 🤷‍♀️

No I understand you perfectly and I’m not disagreeing that statistically speaking a child is more at risk in their own home.

The thing is though, my child and my home are not statistics. I can be as sure as it is possible to be sure that my child is safe at home. I have already acknowledged you can’t keep a child safe 100% of the time - I have my own experience there from my own childhood as it happens - but anywhere else I could not have the same surety.

So what I’m saying is that when applying my own judgement to something this, if I was really thinking that my child is more likely to be abused or come to harm in my care than in someone else’s, that would be indicative of something…but not really an argument for sleepovers!

I understand others judge the risk differently are in support of sleepovers - but you are not honestly telling yourself that your child is safe to go because they are statistically more at risk at your own house? Really? I guess we won’t understand each other on this one!

Here’s the key part:

A new study has revealed a shocking proportion of Australian men would abuse children “if no one found out”.
The research, conducted by the University of New South Wales, found “concerning” patterns, including that one in six Australian men said they had feelings for children under the age of 18, with 48 per cent of those answering being aged over 54.
One in 15 men questioned admitted they would have sexual contact with a child under the age of 14 if “no one found out”, while one in 25 said the same about children under 10.

I think the highlighted section is still pretty significant; 1 in 15 (children under 14) and 1 in 25 (children under 10) is higher than I thought it would be.

https://www.independent.co.uk/world/child-sex-abuse-men-australia-b2450369.html

I have much older sisters and when I was about 12 I had to stay with one of them for a few days because my Dad had had a heart attack and my Mum was the only one allowed at the hospital (it was the early 1980’s).

You guessed it. It was my brother in law who abused me as soon as my sister went upstairs with her baby.

I had many sleepovers with friends my parents had never even met and it was nothing but good safe fun.

@Cakeandusername I'm far more wary of a guides trip then my best friends house. I know my friend & her dc & who lives with them. I don't really know the guide leaders anymore than surface level. A DBS doesn't actually mean much.

One thing I enjoyed about sleepovers is seeing how other families interacted, their habits & rituals etc.

@IchBinPapst that is awful, did it come out?

Yep always men. I’m a lone parent and now I know why other parents had no problem with their kids having sleepovers at my house. I never had a new partner as I didn’t want to bring an unrelated male into my children’s lives. I’m a social worker and I’ve seen the harm that step-dads (or new partners) being introduced to children and moved in at the drop of a hat.

Safety issues - children are often abused by folk they know, sadly.
Sleepovers might be fun but they're not essential.

My DC only went from around 10 and then only when I knew the parents well and both kids had spent lots of time in eachothers houses
DS16 didn't like them and still insists that any friends staying here have to be in the spare room and rarely accepts an invite to one.
DD was ok with them but she rarely instigated them

I think it’s sad that so many children miss out on the fun of sleepovers. I loved them as a kid and teenager.
All my mates piled into a room with our sleeping bags, pizzas and a couple of horror videos.