God I’ve got to tell someone they have a personal hygiene problem tomorrow

[Thedeuce]

Please please please if you’ve ever had this convo before give me top tips. It’s a man not a female and it’s BO.

Or, be a grown up and a decent manager, and have a kind compassionate one on one conversation.

Gosh I’d be mortified. Ive started to smell a bit under the pits for the first time since my teens due to early perimenopause. Have to throw everything at it!

Early in my career I shared an office with a very nice woman who also had this problem. She would shower, apply the strongest anti-perspirant/ deodorant then available and by around 10am she'd be humming and having to go and wash in the cloakroom — but by then whatever she was wearing smelled, too, as did the office. Her role should have involved meeting clients but our manager had to tell her that she couldn't do that until the BO was sorted out.

She had Botox, which helped, and then surgery which did the trick. It was only once her pits had been sorted that we began to notice that her feet smelled: her underarm odour had been so strong that no one had noticed her feet. I left for another job around that time and don't know if she ever managed to sort out her feet.

@HeyWiggle and conversely some people who dont have sensory issues struggle to shower regularly or wash their clothes due to other issues.

Absolutely not a dig as you may be right about some people but that ignores that other people with austism dont struggle to shower/wash, despite sensory issues. I speak about this from experience.

People are different. I dont think OP said individual is or isnt neurotypical/divergent.

We cant accurately predict why someone does/does not maintain personal hygiene and I may be mistaken but that wasnt what the OP @Thedeuce asked? OP asking for tips on how to have the convo with someone regarding BO (not for the reasons for that person who has BO)?

Good call from someone who suggested convo end of day, having been told they have BO may not feel great about being aware of that and having to remain in work, aware that they smell.

Best wishes, OP

My DS (16 tomorrow) also struggles. He’s fine with clean clothes but has a shower on a Sunday. If he misses a Sunday because he didn’t have the spoons it used to wait until the next Sunday. Thankfully he’s realised that it’s not something he can inflict on to others so will shower on a different day but still only once a week. I think in these situations it’s baby steps and they’ll get there because they have us supporting them.

@ scent of a woman

We’ve had this issue before at work and at first they sent a general letter that solved nothing because the person with the problem didn’t realise it was them. They eventually had to have a 1:1 meeting and it (again, eventually) turned out they have some sort of medical condition.

Could be worse - I’ve had/have this problem at home and the person refuses to hear it or do anything about it. It’s very tricky.

@Thedeuce
Are there shower facilities at work? They may want to shower immediately after you have told them. I wouldn't be in your shoes OP, I couldn't tell anyone.

I worked with someone who had terrible BO. We later found out she showered daily but used body spray rather than deodorant.

Also knew someone else who smelt simply because they didn't use deodorant. It could be they don't know it's different from body sprays or it's just never been introduced to them

Maybe use as summer is coming they may want to get a good deodorant as we all do. We share personal space and want everybody to feel comfortable.

Interested to kow if anyone has had to tell a worker that they stink due to too much spray crap especially Lynx which is an abomination.

@EveryOtherNameTaken honestly in the summer no one can take me away from an antiperspirant, I would be mortified to think I was stinking up my colleagues’ spaces

Agree with this too, but perhaps change to 'are you aware that you sometimes smell quite strong'. It gives them a chance to partially save face if they can then explain a problem they know about. I'd also agree with end of day. Good luck!

Indeed - I'd be tempted to say 'I fart in your general direction' to this piece of 'perfection'. Clearly not managerial material.

Thank you! I will see if I can get her multiple sets and see if that helps. I dunno why I didn’t think of that tbh.

I thought it was very Mary Poppins. I wonder if the OP could carry it off?

My adult DS showered very day and washed his clothes every day and despite that had BO. He’s heavy which didn’t help him.
I bought him strong anti perspirant/deodorant and it helped but didn’t solve the problem. Then we added soap to his shower instead of Aveeno which he had been using. Sorted.

Don't be fucking ridiculous!

This totally lacks any compassion.

I have issues with this (terrified this will be a conversation aimed at me!). I wash with soap, shower daily, hair every other day, clean clothes, wear a ‘48 hour’ antiperspirant. Still get breakthrough sweat patches. So embarrassing. The one thing that works for me is Perspirex antiperspirant, which is applied at night and washed off in the morning. I still apply antiperspirant after I’ve washed (belts and braces!). Just don’t apply it within 24 hours of shaving and don’t apply it beyond where the hair grows (it itches).

OP I would look at the guidelines on how to phrase it and suggest you discuss their pattern to identify the issue. Lack of hygiene routine, washing facilities and drying facilities can all be an issue.

My sympathies, I also have this issue with someone at home. I really wish families had HR departments to tackle this sort of thing!

Why? Just , why? How is this better than an adult conversation?

So my OH had this problem big time when we first met.

He'd been single for years, couldn't smell it on himself, and nobody had ever told him. I imagine colleagues would be something like: big, overweight IT nerd? Of course they all smell (because that's what the internet teaches us, right?).

Anyway, looooonnnng way down the line: ADHD diagnosis, and he's definitely autistic.

Meantime, I switch his deodorants to Mitchum because he's busting through whatever he's using and it ain't working.

Mitchum is a godsend if you use it right.

But using it right isn't putting it on with wet armpits, then putting a shirt straight on before allowing it to dry.

Nor did it deal with his sweaty, rather large body, nor nether regions.

So, lessons were learned: dry body and armpits thoroughly, apply underarm, spray body, wait to dry, dress.

But, as someone upthread pointed out, an ADHD'er won't always have the executive function.

The minute he gets stressed/anxious, many of these little things I've taught him slip away and I have to gently ask: did you forget to dry your armpits this morning?

I'm not joking when I say I had to teach a 38 year old man how to tie his shoelaces. He claims nobody ever taught him. But he also looks surprised when I tell him something I've already mentioned six times before, so I think that's ADHD at work there.

Re: reminders, I should probably keep quiet really, because all it serves to do is make him hate himself even more/the condition he feels unable to control. I had to do it last week because our already shit washing machine in our rental wasn't washing hot, and I don't stand a chance against sweat on a cold wash.

SO. If I had to tell someone like my OH in a meeting, to try to find a way that would cause the least amount of embarrassment and make him hate himself the least, I would start with the usually 'sorry if this is upsetting' and simply say 'I was wondering whether the manufacturer of your deodorant has changed their ingredients lately and it's not working as well as it could for you now?' << tell him you've noticed lots of things have become rubbish on our shelves since the COL crisis.

I mean, it's a bit of a stretch, but it's also not totally implausible. Most food that used to taste good now tastes shit where they've replaced good stuff with cheap ingredients. It's not impossible that some huge bastards like Proctor & Gamble have found a way to cut corners on hygiene and washing products too (I have been unable to find a non-shit washing up liquid for 2+ years, for example).

Anyway, yeah. Lay the blame on the manufactuer's door and the employee has a get out clause to say 'oh my god, that could be it, I'll try something else tomorrow, I'm so sorry.'

I HAVE had deodorants that work fine for me no longer work (Sanex iirc).

And defo do it at the end of the work day and don't parade him/her through an open plan office so everyone knows you've just 'had a word.'

A follow up email is just cruel. Just make a note of the convo and what was agreed and if necessary send to HR for their info only.

Whilst I understand the issue with smelling sweat and this not being pleasant, for those with real issues that they struggle to overcome, isn’t it a shame we force people to use toxic antiperspirants and chemicals which block pores. These sprays are full of nasties, sprayed right near lymph nodes.

Years ago, anyone moving about would have smelled a bit sweaty and that was it. Nowadays, we think nothing nothing of covering ourselves in all kinds of horrible, artificial scents which are so bad for us and the environment.

I have been the person being talked to. I was really struggling with depression, ketosis, bereavement, a whole bunch of things. I really appreciated my manager's approach, which was straight forward and objective. but sensitive with no judgement. I was give a lot of support with solutions which was really helpful. I would say the main thing is to be not judgmental (not that you would!), you never know what someone has happening in their life. I hope it goes okay! Xxx

She probably had some sort of infection or illness. This sort of thing is a huge marker for that. She absolutely wouldn't be able to do anything about it by better cleaning of herself or her clothes. That's really sad that she felt she had to leave the job because of it. People need to be better informed about this sort of thing so that they can support those suffering from it.