5 yr old son tried to kill dh yesterday

[StugglingtocopeinEdinburgh]

We were walking along a very busy road and ds asked dh for chocolate. Dh said no so ds then tried to push him onto the road. We both then explained to him how dangerous it was and how that would hurt daddy etc. His response was I don't care. He then pushed dh with all his might onto the road again. He then said hahaha I'm going to kill you.
This is our daily life what happened yesterday happens alot.

He punches his older siblings, breaks stuff. He screams at the top of his voice all the time.

I got myself a new plant today and was showing dh and kids it the minute I put it down He ripped it apart. He watched me cry and said hahaha it's dead now.

I've asked social work for help 3 times now nothing happens
His school are having the same problems. Even with a one to one full time. it's still a struggle for them He can't even eat lunch with the other children because of his violence.

The doctor put me one more medication for low mood and anxiety today. So three lots of medication I'm on now.

I'm scared for us but I'm really scared what ds will grow up to me.

He has been diagnosed with autism and awaiting a adhd assessment ( 3 yr wait)

I’m sorry OP, that sounds so tough. Is there a pattern with him doing these things? Does he like the reactions he gets from you? Are there consequences for his behaviour or does this make it worse?

So horrible for you OP. No easy answers. I honestly don't know what Social Services can offer. They're generally clueless to how to manage this behaviour.

One thing that might help is basically begging for respite breaks. How would you feel about that? No shame in this OP but you have to shout continually for help. In writing is going to be better than phone calls.

Have you looked into a variation of Autism called PDA? Young ones with PDA are generally intelligent with very controlling behaviour.

The other thing I'd look into is conduct disorder. It's a tricky one as you can't always know what's driving what. The absence of any care and deliberately wanting to harm another is what made me suggest conduct disorder as something to just look at to see if anything fits.

I second this. If you cam afford a therapist or private Psychiatry, get him in asap.

Definitely sounds like PDA going on there. It must be so hard op. Hugs for you.

I have had to pay for any chance of speaking to an aware and clued up professional child psychiatrist. I wouldn't trust CAMHS to have a clue on this nor trust that you'd get seen this century.

A private psychiatrist should be one with an excellent understanding of autism and PDA OP. I'd find your own because no one in public services will be much help on the specifics of managing it all. With PDA, if applicable, there's hope in that if certain stressors are reduced, the behaviour improves.

With regards to conduct disorder, I don't see anyone ever talk about it in this country. Only Americans. So whether a professional would even be able to ' assess' I have no clue.

I am confused as to why medicating you is supposed to help this situation when your anxiety has a clear cause

I agree with others - if you can afford to get private help, or if either of your employers offer family counselling or similar perhaps try that. You can't wait 3 years

@Ophy83 when mum's go to a GP and say 'im really struggling with my child's behaviour, here are examples, I think they're Autistic, what can I do'.

Well, many will be offered a parenting course. And a parenting course is going to help not one single parent of an Autistic child, not one. A referral for an assessment this century would help parents, but they won't get this with the current situation we have with obliteration of services.

The GP can't really offer OP much more here because the child is diagnosed already, the GP will know and possibly encouraged not to refer to second tier services like CAMHS which imo are in total free fall atm anyway. So the only option they have is to try help OP cope with it.

If you are in Edinburgh, I’d recommend perhaps seeing if Tailor Ed can help you.

my daughter was referred to CAMHS FIVE years ago. Never saw them, and she’s now been taken off the list.

Waiting for camhs might do more harm than good. They are so useless they are dangerous sometimes.

Put it on a credit card if you have to, but this needs looking into ASAP OP. Good luck & very sorry! I’d rather have a credit card to pay then a serious or fatal family accident to deal with.

You may find it helpful to get in touch with the National autistic society. They have resources and also parent groups that meet and where you can talk with other parents of autistic kids.

many autistic kids are violent when young and it does go down as you can identify triggers and also as they mature a bit.

You may find this at least partly useful, OP - it's the Nice guideline for conduct disorder. It is recognised in the UK, though rarely diagnosed as it's basically the child version of psychopathy/ASPD. That said, if a child has this, their prospects improve the earlier treatment is started (it teaches them how to get along in society without doing crimes, in a nutshell).

If his behaviours are not quite that intractable, he may have PDA. In that case it's mostly a question of changing how you frame things for him. Some kids respond well to a combination of emotional 'management' and medication.

I don't know how you go about getting clarification and the appropriate support. I've got a horrible feeling you'll end up paying ££££ for a private diagnosis ... How about the psych support person at his school? How clued-up are they, and would they join hands with you in corralling professional support? You could also try the CPN at your GP's practice.

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/conduct-disorders-in-children-young-people/diagnosis/when-to-suspect-a-conduct-disorder/

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I second the recommendation from @GarlicSmile to look at conduct disorder and callous-unemotional traits. when your son is violent, is he angry and out of control or is he calm and determined?

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/what-psychopathy-is-and-isnt/202305/can-callousness-and-unemotionality-in-children-be-treated

if this matches your son, then the most important thing to know is that kids like this don't learn well from punishment but can learn about rewards. So clear consistent reward charts with lots of (very small) rewards might be effective.

and do push the NHS and the school for support and respite. this level of challenging behaviour is very unusual and it is worth fighting for people to pay attention.

this is not typical of autistic kids, but the child could still show these behaviours and the OP needs help to deal with it.

This behavior has nothing to do with autism.

That sounds tough. You could try spending a bit more quiet one to one time with him. And see if there are any clues in what he says or comes out with. Is he sad/upset about something or struggling with something etc. He is still only 5 so I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet

I agree with @GarlicSmile

He seems to have a lot of anger. The violence could be just childish outbursts of emotion. Maybe he's overstimulated and lashes out when he can't regulate himself. Or maybe he's angry for a reason. Maybe he's angry at you, his parents, because he feels unsafe and feels you haven't protected him from something.

I'm not saying autism isn't a factor, but I'd be wondering about other influences in his life. There is no way at all to know what your circumstances are, so I'm not suggesting anything. But this is often the kind of behaviour you see in children who have witnessed something traumatic. Domestic abuse against their mother, as an example. Being involved in a car crash. Surviving a conflict zone. Or even 'just' children who are being bullied.

Again, I'm not pointing any fingers. Or trying to make your anxiety worse. But I wouldn't rush to pin this all on autism, when there could be another reason he's struggling emotionally.

After he laughed and said he was going to k ill your DH, what was the consequence?

What happened today after he broke your plant?

The OP seems at her wits end, I don’t know what you are getting out of reporting it, but I hope it makes you happy. Are you saying that no kids can behave this way? Yes it may not be typical of autism, but he could have other things alongside autism?

Hate to say this but maybe it’s not about a diagnosis of anything, if he’s centralized and zoned in on himself, he won’t care about others. He lacks empathy. So punish him- take away his toys. Take away rewards, he might not outwardly show he’s sad/ he might not have that to display but inwards he will feel loss at your taking of “his things” . You have to tap into his empathy. At least your honest that your scared of him, I would be if my child was. Only way to get through I would think is by disciplining with his own things in his world until he gets it. :(

She said he’s autistic, she didn’t say that’s what’s causing the behaviour.