EBSA support thread 2

[Luddite26]

Hopefully this links to Brambley Hedges EBSA support thread.
A community to discuss the processes and support each other when children are experiencing Emotionally Based School Avoidance.

I am in awe of all of you who can fill out all the various forms that your DC need. I think I found out about them too late for any of mine but that's probably ok as I would have fucked things up by filling them out incorrectly.

I am feeling very alone right now though. DD2 and DS went in which is a win. The college I looked at for DD1 she thinks she can't handle and she feels like she is 'cooked' as she puts it. And she won't let us help her or do anything to help herself and I feel like there isn't really anyone we can turn to at all.

I don't think it's too late for EHCPs @ISaySteadyOn but that is not to say it is easy.

Does DD1 have an idea for what she wants to do beyond college - does she have a "why"? We had to sort college when DS was too unwell to imagine the future at all really which made it so much harder. Would studying online appeal, or doing a vocational course?

I think the first college DS looked at would have been great (though thank goodness he didn't end up there as the journey was ridiculous) but he rejected it out of hand. In hindsight I wonder if it was a visceral, automatic "no" because he was rejecting the whole idea of going to college. We then visited a few (without him) and drip fed some little snippets to get his brain used to the idea that it was happening. I think he had a bit of a journey to go on before he could say yes to anything IYSWIM.

Colleges tend to need mainstream DC to sign up to full time ie 3 A levels of equivalent. But once registered some students do drop down to 2 in practice if they are not coping with 3. FT college is about 4.5 hours contact time per subject. Some colleges condense this into 3 or even 2 long days per week, especially vocational courses.

We have tried other schools for her and tried a college with a special program before we looked at this one for GCSEs. I just don't think the whole school institution is right for her but yet she needs the qualifications to open doors for her. She's an artist and a really talented craftswoman and is interested in becoming a small businesswoman in regard to that.

I think the difficulty is that she also does need to put in some effort even if it is hard. I can't do it for her.

@ISaySteadyOn I second @Piony saying it’s not too late if you want to go down the EHCP route.

What about GCSEs via a private provider rather than DD having to go to a school or college? You can do GCSE art, textiles, graphics and photography via private providers. You can also do things such as the Arts Award via private providers and NCFE art/craft/textiles qualifications and City & Guilds textiles awards.

That's really helpful! I thought you might be able to do art or textiles privately but didn't know where to begin! Thank you She and I could look together. That's the good thing that has happened. She was quite passive before but now she wants to be more involved.

I’m sorry @ISaySteadyOn I wish I had some advice for you! I work in a creative field and have a degree in textiles (my job isn’t specifically textiles but still a creative role), and used to run a small business related to it too. So if she has any future questions in that regard I can help 🙂

We have our teams meeting with SENDCo from the named school this morning. He has asked me to fill in the forms from their admissions team to get the ball rolling in that regard, which I am happy to do. But I wanted to double check here before I start doing it in case I shouldn’t be doing it for whatever reason. We won’t hear the panel decision until next week, and obviously the outcome of that will determine if we need to appeal the named school on her EHCP. Does anyone think I should hold off on the enrolment side of things until I know what’s going on?

1. CreatED - GCSEs in art, photography, textiles
2. Arts in Action - Heidi Pendergrast - GCSEs in art, graphics, photography, textiles.
3. theartanddesignroom - Laura Powell - GCSEs in art, textiles
4. Donna’s Photography, Film & Art Tuition - GCSEs in art, photography. Also Arts Award.
5. Granary Creative Arts CIC - GCSE art
6. 3A Bristol - GCSEs in fine art and photography
7. Nelson’s Art tuition - Debbie Nelson - GCSE art
8. Inner Art - Katie Beth - HCSE art
9. Live2Learn tutoring - GCSE art
10. Arty Artisan - GCSE art. Also offer the Arts Award.

@ISaySteadyOn thr above are some examples of providers who do GCSEs in art, textiles, etc. where they aren’t an exam centre themselves, they will then work with an affiliated exam centre. Lots work with Tutors and Exams, but some work with others e.g. Granary Creative Arts CIC works with Faregos exam centre and 3A Bristol is an exam centre itself. There are others but I thought 10 is a good place to start looking. Some are online, some in person, some offer both.

The below are some examples of other providers offering art courses other than GCSE.

1. School of Stitched Textiles - City and Guild’s textiles course
2. Aced - offer some NCFE courses in art and textile - one of NCFE’s art and design courses is being withdrawn so not open to new students, but there are other NCFE art courses.
3. Technology Triumphs - also has a few NCFE art, textile courses
4. OCAD - offer iGCSE art and a seperate level 2 accredited art course
5. Enter CIC - Arts award.
6. South Coast Learning - NCFEs in art and photography.

@Leafywool Does DD want to try to attend the school? What would your plan be if you didn’t enrol? In case the LA or the school try to tell you otherwise, the naming of the school in the EHCP doesn’t automatically mean DD is on the roll of the school. Even if you appeal, the LA will expect DD to attend the named school during the appeal process. If DD is unable (in the legal sense, not just because you disagree with the placement and are appealing) attend the school, the LA will continue to have a duty under s19 of the Education Act 1996 to provide alternative provision. You would, of course, also be free to make your own arrangements.

Just 💖to everyone on this thread. I will be looking at all of those. I bet one of them DD will at least consider.

You are all amazing. Thank you 💐

Thanks @2x4greenbrick this is exactly what I needed to know. I wasn’t sure what the ‘done’ thing was since it’s all a bit up in the air at the moment. Dd is still under the impression that she’s going there and will be in the RP as we had originally thought - I’ve not told her what’s going on yet as there’s no point until I have some definitive answers, as it will just make her spiral anxiety-wise. I’ll fill out the forms they have sent over as requested!

@Leafywool some enroll DC in the new school while waiting for appeal. Some don’t. There isn’t one way. If DD would like to try the school, then it could provide good evidence to support an appeal for the RP.

Yesterday was DS first "official" transition day, or half day rather, with all of his new peers as opposed to last week where there was only the first day of the stay and plays that we encountered other kids and it went disastrously.

We were the second family there, and it seemed quiet but then all the other children arrived at the cloakroom and it became really overwhelming really fast. I was honestly not sure how DS was going to cope, but he seemed to manage ok. He also came out of school happy.

He has a day off today and we are being brave and attempting the cinema, which is something we've never successfully managed to do, but he really wants to go and watch the shaun the sheep movie. I'm not sure how it's going to go though because this morning he woke up and thought he had school and we had a huge meltdown because he didn't want to go to school and he was in such a state that he couldn't hear me saying that there was no school today for over an hour. Lots of punching himself in the head, slapping his own legs, wanting a cuddle but not wanting to be touched.

He has an afternoon half day tomorrow so there's even more time for the apprehension to build up tomorrow morning. I really want to feel hopeful about this new school and my family keep telling me I should be so grateful that he was offered a place and he's got more than a lot of children with similar needs have but I feel like I'm faking that gratitude because I am still horribly scared that even though he appears to be doing ok once he's in, getting him in is the issue and he's very vocal about not wanting to go in with extreme psychological distress.

I think this is an example of where I don't know what to do, he struggles with transitions so naturally I want to prepare him for those transitions but the anticipation of being informed there's a transition causes so much distress that preparing him for these transitions seems to have a paradoxical effect, especially when he feels his autonomy is threatened.

Hi @Jimmyneutronsforehead firstly that is good to hear about yesterday. seems it's wiped him out. I hope you can both enjoy the Shaun the Sheep movie.
People are probably trying to be well meaning telling you you should be grateful, and it may not bother you. it would annoy me. I would feel they just wanted us troublesome folk put in a box and for everything to be ok and smooth running.
it's not like that and they don't get it. I would feel that is putting pressure on you, which in turn could make ds feel the pressure vibe.
Neither of you are lucky. DS shouldn't have been where he was for so long, it hasn't helped him. And now this transition is bigger than it should have been.
Is there anything that can help DS with transitions? Would a reward chart help to build up to a treat.
or watch something that he enjoys in the morning together to keep him as calm as possible? sometimes bribes are the only thing that would work.
we never even had success with transitions at swimming even when all close relatives went to cheer him on so my success rate is zero. 😗

@Luddite26 he's not fussed about reward charts. He is developing emotionally but reward charts are still a bit abstract for him. He's still very much in the now and not now stage of understanding so if the gratification isn't in the instant then it can also lead to dysregulation. It's one of the things on his EHCP that needs work in terms of delaying gratification.

Anything we've done like visual timetables just causes distress because he can see things that are on his timetable that he has no autonomy over. We've tried restricting information to a don't ask don't tell routine so we haven't held information back unless he has asked for it which is easier now he is speaking a bit better but we couldn't do that when he was completely non-verbal. It stops a lot of the anticipation anxiety but when the penny drops there's a huge explosion. At school this has looked like trying to get out of his car seat when he's seen us pulling into school, rolling windows down, taking his clothes off, hitting, kicking, screaming, pulling his own hair out, vomiting. It's been so frustrating when he's come out of his old school and they've said oh he's had a lovely day he was fine as soon as he walked in.

I just know he has the aptitude for learning and I know a school can give him that better than I ever could but all the work they did last week on a 1:1 basis where he genuinely seemed settled and coped without us and didn't fuss too much in the car feels like it's gone out of the window when other children are introduced and he's held it all in until this morning.

It's like a pit in my stomach where I just feel like I cant do right for doing wrong.

I know one of the challenges we're going to have at the cinema today is that he will have to sit still or at least stay in our row. We purposefully booked it for during school hours though so at least the other very few cinema participants will likely be young children. I think when we booked there were only 4 other seats taken.

To get to the cinema we have to walk past a bowling alley/arcade type thing which immediately switches his attention. It's been a year or so since we last tried but last time he was excited for the cinema and then his mind switched to the arcade and we lasted 20 minutes because he started kicking off that he wanted to be in the arcade instead. He knows the arcade have actually removed his favourite game and we haven't been in a long time so we decided it was worth a chance today. I am not expecting we will see the full film though.

The year before we got kicked out of a cinema because he was physically stimming, despite us being the only family in the viewing and they tried to tell us it was a health and safety risk, although they said it would be absolutely fine if he did the same thing in an autism dedicated viewing of the same film. It was a clear case of discrimination but it has left us feeling extremely humiliated.

He does have a morning routine for days off so I am hoping tomorrow we can just have his normal routine, and then hop in the car like it's a very normal thing to go to his new school which I hope will be his new normal soon and cross my fingers we do not have any explosive meltdowns on the way.

@ISaySteadyOn sorry you are feeling alone. Don't feel like all is lost. I hope you can find something from 2x4s list. it's very inspiring.
DD will get there. maybe not in the expected way but there are other paths.💐

well I hope the cinema trip happens and he enjoys it. I hate arcades so solidarity to you there. Get through to today and then good luck tomorrow. x

@Jimmyneutronsforehead I would also be bothered about the ‘be grateful’ type people!! I’d probably tell them to F off in all honesty 🤣 But I know that’s unhelpful.

Totally get the transition/preparation/anticipation thing. We have the same (on a much smaller scale admittedly), that dd struggles with transitions so has a need to know what’s happening in advance but then on the other end of the scale the anticipation causes so much anxiety. So it’s often difficult to know which way to approach things as usually both ways are just as bad as each other.

I did wonder when you said the first session was difficult and overwhelming due to the other kids being there, then the other sessions being ok as he was alone, how it would go when he’s back to being with his new classmates again. It’s so hard when they come out of school happy then get into a state when they know they are going back again ☹️

I do hope you managed to get some time in the cinema to watch the movie!

Thank you @Leafywool and @Luddite26 we managed our first full movie!

I think, like with school it was because it was quiet and we manufactured visiting when nobody else was really there. We did go for icecream afterwards and we're eating our traditional Tuesday McDonald's feeling quite celebrant. He hasn't mentioned school yet again so I am hoping today has been enough of a distraction that it gives tomorrow a decent chance of being successful, although half way through the movie he did ask me if our dog who died in March will respawn so that caught me a bit off guard. Clearly for now at least his mind is on other things and the movie was very funny so that helped.

We had our meeting with the SENDCo at DD’s new school this morning. I really like him, he is obviously very experienced and knows his stuff/seems no-nonsense but also came across very caring and understanding when it came to discussing dd. He explained their position and why they responded the way they did to the consultation - he explained it as ‘writing to the audience of the LA’, making it clear that if they want to name the school and give dd the support she’s entitled to then they need to fund it correctly.

Anyway long story short is that he has been extremely reassuring in the support they can provide for dd, and she’s really excited to go there, so we are going ahead and giving it our best shot. They want her to start sooner rather than later as the longer we leave it, the bigger the gap there is to close with regards to the learning side of things. I am obviously apprehensive but do feel positive about it after the meeting today. But all being well she will start sometime over the next couple of weeks (and I now have a load of uniform to buy!)

Ahhh I am genuinely so glad to hear that!! It’s so nice that you’ve had a successful day after such a tough start.

really pleased to read your positive news @Leafywool. it has been a long time coming so I hope it goes smoothly. it has been awful that DD has had to wait till now to get sorted for this school year
it can't have had a good effect on her. or you all obviously. Fingers crossed for better to come.🤞

@Jimmyneutronsforehead that is fantastic that you have both managed to enjoy the cinema trip.
Maybe you could have your own reward chart for all the positive things that happen because parents are so hard on themselves we feel that the negatives outweigh the positives but do they in reality. we need to celebrate the wins more.

On a different note we went to Maccies last night, just for some drinks while waiting for GS17 to do his theory test.
when my kids were young we never went there (I'm a vegetarian and dd1 is so it didn't really work for us.
But since COVID, for some reason, we have been going more - possibly cost when there's 6 or 7 of you! But I can't believe what a convert I am! GS8 said this morning he had really enjoyed sitting there and chatting last night and just going out for a drink. it can be surprisingly quite calming in there sometimes.
I suppose you aren't worrying as much if the kids get rowdy!😄

Sometimes just getting out of the house can help.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead mine used to love Shaun the Sheep and also Timmy Time (if you haven't seen it, it's about a lamb from the same farm going to nursery school) . I hope school goes well for your DS.

My GS17 loved Timmy Time and he used to love rubbing his hands on his Timmy Time t-shirt!
Time flies. I used to enjoy watching it with him!

That sounds really positive, if DD is up for it? Sometimes re branding the idea reinforced with new uniforms can be helpful so I really hope DD finally finds somewhere she can settle.