EBSA support thread 2

[Luddite26]

Hopefully this links to Brambley Hedges EBSA support thread.
A community to discuss the processes and support each other when children are experiencing Emotionally Based School Avoidance.

Morning all
I have a question…..our Dd (12) yr 8 is already in a terrible state about school restarting last week. She didn’t attend for the last 3-4 weeks of last term. I have read a lot about EBSA (steep learning curve - she is the youngest of 3 and we haven’t experienced this with the 2 boys) and I’m wondering whether EBSA means that education as a whole is off the cards or whether online school might work??

She is saying she doesn’t want to be home schooled (more than anything she just wants to go to school like everyone else but just can’t do it) but I’m not sure whether to try and persuade her or whether I will end up having to deal with the same resistance and refusal that I’m already having on a daily basis. I can’t imagine her just hanging round the house doing nothing all day but maybe that’s what I need to get used to.

DH is adamant she should have some kind of education but the more pressure is put on her the more she shuts down. She is at an independent school who are bending over backwards to try and help but there’s not much they can do if she can’t go in. Very hard to know what to do and am feeling very worried and stressed trying to be the referee ☹️😭

Going to school next week, not last week!!

@EggShells1972 arguably there is quite a lot they can do if she can't go in. I saw Anna Maxwell Martin talking about her DC's EBSNA. The interviewer (think it might have been Stephen Bartlett) asked what resolved it in the end, and her answer was "kindness". We were looking round sixth forms recently and they varied so much from "well obviously they have to come in or they won't learn," to reeling off long lists of adaptations they are already using to help anxious/autistic students to feel psychologically safe in their classrooms.

Anyway that is not really answering your question. Have a look at the first thread. There are plenty of PPs for whom education at home or online has been very successful. It's not an option for us as DC is not able to engage with it - I guess it depends exactly what has traumatized them and where they are in their journey. But it may, or may not, be an option for your daughter now or in time. Just be warned recovery can take many months longer than you hope. I would encourage you to trust your gut - if I had my time over I'd have taken action earlier and "let" things fail quicker rather than ploughing on and hoping it got easier. It's such a paradigm shift from a world where "of course" everyone just goes to school all day because why wouldn't you?

@EggShells1972 in answer to your post today. In my opinion or I should say if it was me knowing what I know now I wouldn't be pushing her back to school next week. I would treat her current state of EBSA with a mental health sick note. Head rest is needed right now.
I don't know whether you have come across Naomi Fisher but her approach is not to keep pushing. If you haven't she is worth a read online.
Tbh Y8 not a pressure year if she needs a break try a break. My DD1 had time off in Y9 totally unable to face school etc had from before Easter to the end of the summer term off. Managed to return for y10/11. But everyone is an individual so I don't want to make it sound that easy but my point is a total rest right now will not damage her education.
There's a lot of noise about MH problems but in reality little help or real sympathy.💐

I agree, the school can do a lot, by moving classes, letting them skip some, allowing them to go in earlier or leave earlier, or have a reduced timetable for a while, and/or having a safe person or a safe place to go to. If the school is serious about helping, they really can. Another thing is linking up with mental health services and/or a counsellor, or having counselling in school. This worked with my older DC. But if it's just words, and no action, it will fail.

With our younger DC (state) school said warm words but are not, in practice, doing anything, and despite an EHCP are trying to say they cannot meet need. It's so disappointing as we have seen what can be done.

@Piony I hope your ds will be able to have a rest mentally for a few months and be able to be kind to himself. And all of you get some breathing space.
The trauma is something else. We wish that DGS hadn't gone to school at all after the damage of 1 term in Reception did to him. But if he hadn't gone we would have wondered if we had ever done the right thing by not sending him. But to hear him at 5 years old saying he hated being the person he is was heartbreaking.
It's just about keeping going really isn't it.
Keep on buggering on.💐

@Luddite26 I hear you about little help or real sympathy. I feel like since Covid professionals are stuck as there are no resources so they don't want to promise anything or go out on a limb, even to help a child in their care. The LA is just trying to spend as little as possible. Other people are just thinking 'thank god mine go in' and wondering if it's your parenting. You are wondering if it's your parenting until you consider that this wasn't an issue until X happened at school. Strength

There has been a media campaign in recent times which I know means we'll and I hope has helped some people.
It said ask someone if they are ok and if they say yes ask them agai, are you really ok?
I always think it's just words really. I know some people are genuinely good at supporting and listening but so many more just don't want to know. People who have gone through similar things and just ghost you cos they don't want to hear it.
Happens in all life really like when you have experienced a dire marriage and someone who has been a good friend of yours for many years turns and says I bumped into exh he was really chatty and nice. And you just think what's the point.
People used to say to me with my dds just tell them to go to school and you would think am I too soft , why is it me. Now I don't care. The kids have to know that they can rely on you and you are on their side.

@Bromley4ever I think you're right, everyone's just hoping none of their own get this idea that they can stop going in and there is no money for anything. DC's old school didn't even have somewhere a student could go if struggling - it was corridors or your HoY's personal office if they weren't teaching or dealing with one of their other 250 charges. They had a safe space for either break or lunch, but not both. I hope that has changed now.

@Luddite26 thank you. We had a special interest thing this holiday and another lined up to look forward to in August. Everyone else seems to be head down revising and we are in parallel universe. I have prob said this to you before but I do think your grandson's future looks bright being so listened to at such a young age. We can't make perfect decisions and we're never acting on perfect information, but your experience and his mum's must surely have prevented a lot more damage.

@EggShells1972 @Luddite26 makes a really good point about summer of Y8 not being a critical time. It's a scary concept but a lot of work is topic based - if she misses a history topic or an English text it's not the end of the world. MFL and maths perhaps a bit trickier to have gaps, but she could drop MFL end of Y9 anyway.

I thought this was an interested post which chimes well with the question of what schools can do. The Autistic SENCo on standards

@Piony It's great thank you for sharing. We have found that this was much more possible a few years ago but hopefully it goes on in some schools. Just a few staff or even one member of staff going out on a limb has made a big difference in the past. But right now with us, it's school management cracking down because no school wants to have lots of children on roll where they can't show progress.

Thank you @Bromley4ever her school have massively reduced her timetable, given her a safe place to go if she needs to, offered her a late start/early pickup but the trouble is that all of these things raise the expectation for her to attend which then puts more pressure on her and she shuts down even more. She can’t keep up with the workload and even though they have said she doesn’t need to do any homework it’s still too much for her. We are currently trying hypnotherapy to try and ease the anxiety which she so far seems happy to be trying - previous therapy and counselling have failed as she can’t talk/articulate her feelings. Most of the time she doesn’t even know how she feels. I can’t see how she’ll ever manage to cope with education - it just all feels impossible at the moment.

Y7 DD with EBSA here, the school is really supportive and we have diagnoses for ASC with PDA, and combined ADHD. The PDA is the kicker. Y7 has been spent playing video games at home and struggling to get dressed, rarely going out, everything being overwhelming, and we are doing full low demand parenting. I stopped work to be home with her but really not sure if there's a path to going back to school that we will somehow eventually get on through patience and kindness. Seems far away right now.

Hi @greenhappy , totally with you I just don't know where this ends up.

Is everyone back at school already or do you have that dreaded last Sun of the hols today? DS has been back for a week. Finding it tough. GCSEs start 2 weeks tomorrow.

Goodness only knows how we will fill the summer.

Hi @Piony and @greenhappy
we are in similar boat. School started last Tuesday and DD yr 8 hasn’t been in at all. We have now taken all pressure off (including trying to get her to do any school work ant home) and hoping that at some point, something will change. But I agree, what happens from here? ASD/PDA + ADHD - school just seems like an impossible goal atm. We are currently trying hypnotherapy to help the anxiety but only 3 sessions in so too early to know if it’s helping or not.
Someone else on the original thread commented that low demand parenting is the way forward but it’s hard to see where it will all end up 😫

It all seems a complete mess. I went to a meeting this week with representatives from the council as to why so many parents are pulling children out of school. All the other mums there had children with EHCPs which were not getting implemented.
Ironically one of the reps was an ex head from the school where I pulled my own 2 children out to home ed in 2006 and 2012.
So little things or what seem like little things
I put forward how awful a 40minute dinner time is to get 1800 kids through lunch. When I was at school it was about 900 kids in school and 1h 15 mins for lunch. Yes an early finish is great but how much anxiety is that causing. My GS6 said a couple of weeks ago he is so glad he is home ed cos he knows that he will like what he's having for lunch and he will know he will like his tea. And how does it work for example GS 15 when he was going to school up to year 8 having breakfast at 7.00 cycling to school a few miles away through hazardous gang territory not getting lunch at school till 1.30 then finishing at 2.30. He's a teen who gets Hangar since home edding he makes his lunch at 10.30 and then settles down till tea that's how it works for him.
I know it's not all about food but these are the small details which in my book cause the bigger problems.
I just think we have lost our way with these huge academies and strict uniform policies. All ok for square pegs.
I've even begun wondering these last couple of weeks if having COVID has affected people who are neuro diverse differently. I know the whole halt in normality totally messed my head up. It hasn't recovered and I don't function the same. Nobody is looking to see if this has happened in kids they just blame the not going to school making kids lazy and parents.

In my experience pushing school on the child is a pressure that can be too much. I read some of Alastair Campbell's anecdotes about his experience of MH problems and just not getting out of bed. If a child has reached the point of burnout they need physical and mental rest. When they don't get that it's just kicking the can down the line.
I don't mean to sound negative. I have just got to the point where I despair at the gap in society for the square pegs and those trying to get through each day.
But I do know that children who are written off at school can become adults who know what they are doing with their lives. And they can heal if given the time and space to do so.

@greenhappy it is positive that school are being supportive. Even though through experience I am a home ed advocate I would never say to deregister if school were supportive enough.
Sometimes the weight can lift off in time when a child knows that demand has gone. I know there are people who are unschooling advocates. At some point something comes from within.💐

Have you ever thought about redoing a school year? Our Y7 is a May baby, so relatively far into the school year . Thinking (you know those late at night lightbulb moments about how to cope that seem so dim by lunchtime the next day) what if DD redid Y7 so that 1) She's got another year to 'recover'/figure out from EBSA and exhaustion, 2) It's not Y8 when homework piles up and 3) She will likely have to repeat anyway down the line at the current attendance rate of 32%, so is it better now when everyone is starting new in Sept?

But is it stigmatising is the thing, dropping a form, and really really bad for self-esteem that's had a kicking with all this as things are?

@greenhappy I think that is something best discussed with your DD and the school.
I totally understand where you are coming from - I had two late August birthdays and 1 September and the August's were always on catch up.
Personally it isn't something I would pursue.

My own feelings are MH above academia.

@Luddite26 it's good they asked the question. I hope they listen. I completely agree about the school environment. The stories my children tell me of not being able to get food, herded in with their bullies and no supervision at break times, toilets locked most of the time and when they're open, being gender neutral with the individual locks all broken. Learning 30 paragraphs of French by rote and being taught how to pass exams by regurgitating them. Mark schemes the focus for everything, even over the content.

@greenhappy we got quite close to my son dropping down a year to repeat Y10, but this is highly unusual in an English mainstream school, especially a state school. I'm not sure how it works elsewhere in the UK. Socially it is usually considered very difficult unless with a school move. Also, 6 years somewhere that can't meet your needs is just worse than 5 years. Our 16yo son is kicking for school to end now. He is exhausted. He doesn't have it in him to care about his results, and he wouldn't have it in him to do this for an extra year. It's scary when they are missing things but in hindsight I think we held on by our fingernails too long when it blatantly wasn't working.

@EggShells1972 the hypnotherapy sounds like a great idea. DS really struggles to engage with any sort of therapy. I think a lot of treatment for anxiety is particularly challenging for autistic people to access. I really hope it helps your daughter.

@greenhappy I have thought about this option too but have recently discounted in the grounds that DD’s self esteem is so low anyway, having to re-do a year when her peers (and friends) are in the year above would be awful for her and only make the situation worse. Her attendance last term was around 50% and this term so far is 0%. I wish I had a crystal ball. I have no idea what will happen but I do know that taking the pressure off completely is resulting in a renewed sense of self and a happier and more relaxed girl. Also it has reduced the stress on me - for the time being at least.

PDA is another thing all together but learning more about it really helps to begin to understand where the child is coming from.

How is everyone doing in the heat? Is anybody making any progress?🌞

Loving the heat, DD still at home but has said that she would like to try and go into school next week after the bank holiday…..am keeping expectations very low just in case there’s a change of heart. I really feel for her - she obviously really wants to go in and have a normal school life (whatever that may be).
Husband is growing increasingly frustrated with the situation which is increasing the pressure on me - I get his frustrations but wish he’d take the time to get her more too.
ugh!

Good luck for next week @EggShells1972. (I love your username, I relate so much.) How are things with you @Luddite26?

Very twitchy here. Non-EBSNA sibling is not sleeping with A levels on the horizon and getting very upset. EBSNA child had a difficult day, but then we are not really expecting good days as exams loom ever larger. DH and I are exhausted.

Looking to book in a night at a comedy show or something, to give me and DH something to look forward to.