EBSA support thread 2

[Luddite26]

Hopefully this links to Brambley Hedges EBSA support thread.
A community to discuss the processes and support each other when children are experiencing Emotionally Based School Avoidance.

I couldn't find it. Is there any chance you could drop a link?

I did however find this https://senddaddiaries.substack.com/p/when-school-feels-like-a-threat-ebsa
Which I thought was brilliant and very true.

Had a talk with DS yesterday and his attitude has totally changed. He thinks school is something you just do, you enjoy the classes you like, get through the ones you don't, have fun with your friends and come home. I don't know how long this will last but I praised him to the skies for it. I think it's a combination of my stepping back, him looking after himself and his school being compassionate and sensible.

Also, I know I don't post as much helpful information as others do here, but whether I post or not, I am always trying to send positive energies everyone's way and I am, of course, on everyone's side.

Thanks @ISaySteadyOn I have tried but no success true luddite I will try later. it was only posted today.

I find the send dad diaries a good read.

It’s here. I need to re-read it properly, but on a quick skim, while I think there are some good points, particularly for those with lower level SEN, one concern I have is graded exposure doesn’t work for all. For some, it is actively harmful. Same for CBT. I dislike the ‘known-causes’ section, too.

Thankyou @2x4greenbrick .

@ISaySteadyOn that sounds like a good move for your son. a good mindset which could get him through. I agree with you we are all here to support each other in any way we can.

Good luck to everyone today! I am feeling better because I have a plan in place for when they don't go that isn't punitive but is firm.

Hope everyone has a good week. We went out and did a practice run of the train commute to school and got new uniform at the weekend so it all feels very real now!

@Leafywool and @ISaySteadyOn This all sounds very positive. I hope this new week goes well for everyone.

We've got an afternoon session today, then a morning session tomorrow and then it's full days.

New school rang me on Friday to say pickup time for the afternoons is now 3:30pm, so let's see if the parking situation eases up a bit!

DS and I went to see DP yesterday and DP asked if he was enjoying play school and DS said yes, which could mean owt or could mean nowt but the thought of school didn't immediately send him into a panic. DP also asked what his new friends are called and he just said boys and girls, which is so funny because at home when he wants someone to do something with him he'll stand with his hands on his side like a playground assistant and he'll say in his most gentle parenting voice "come on boys, come on girls, this way, time to line up" then do a come here hand gesture like he's summoning you for a side quest. I can totally imagine him rounding up other kids this way.

how did today go for you and DS@Jimmyneutronsforehead ?
I really hope this week is a breakthrough for you both. His interactions at the weekend sound very cute and hopeful.🩷

Our morning routine was interrupted by my great aunt visiting, and as she was leaving she said "oh I'd best be off and let this little man get ready for school".

He went from chill to crisis mode very fast. I didn't think we were going to make it in, but eventually managed to get him dressed. Had to take him with his shoes and socks separately because they kept flying off in the car.

The car park barriers were up so we were cheeky fuckers and parked in the car park, but I was on my last hoot to give by this point.

He seemed calm enough so we got out of the car and then another little boy walked past us who I recognised from his old school but there's a bit of a story between this boy and DS.

DS has had a language bloom quite suddenly but he has really struggled until recently, and this other little boy is still very much pre-verbal, and in their old school they were both very unsupported, but there have been a few instances where this little boy has been in DSs personal space with no adult mediating so DS has hit this little boy. We worked really hard with DS to provide some functional language by getting him to sit on his hands and say "I need space please" or walk away and tap a teacher for help, but this other little boy still wouldn't give DS space so the hitting continued, so for a lot of the past year I have been a bag of nerves at pick up waiting for the teachers to say he's hit this little boy again and be told nobody saw what preceded the hitting or they saw part of it or it just came out of the blue. DS definitely felt like the naughty kid and I've no doubts this has contributed to his anxiety around school.

Anyway seeing this other little boy made DS physically climb up my body and his TA had to peel him off.

He came out at the end of the day in good spirits though, and we've had no evening meltdowns, he's just asked to wear his own clothes tomorrow which is his way of saying he doesn't want to go, but I will compromise and let him wear his own clothes rather than the uniform and I'll see if I can talk to the SENCO and just let them know the history. There's a lot more TA support so I am sure history won't have much chance to repeat itself, but better to be an open book.

oh definitely you must let them know your poor DS. Wow I just can't believe that curve ball that you could not see coming. really rooting for you both today.

Still some protesting done today but very minimally.

I've been reassured that DS hasn't been buddied up with the other little boy, but they did say that there will be times they mingle.

I've just asked that they keep a close eye on both of them, DS likes his personal space and the other little boy is just seeking a connection in the only way he can really.

I can believe that there were times DS hit this little boy "unprovoked" because he used to come out of school saying I had to hit him before he hits me. Obviously not being there to see what actually happened I can't really say, and DSs limited language might not be as literal as we think when we hear that, I don't think this little boy has actually hit DS but I don't think it's a leap to say DS did it because he was worried this little boy would get in his space again as often was confirmed to happen. I don't want the opportunity for that to become a thing at his new setting, because it sounds very confusing for both boys.

His new school just rang actually to say his annual EHCP review is due so we've got a meeting booked in for the 13th of October.

Is there an EHCP support thread because clearly this one is badly written and I'm keen to make quite a few changes and think some of the PPs on here have a lot more wisdom and knowledge than I have but I don't want to derail the EBSA thread.

His last emergency annual review was only completed in July too so I feel like this is quite soon, and all I ever seem to be doing these days is looking at an EHCP.

Glad to hear you have been able to explain the situation between the two boys. I really hope that staff can understand it without it becoming a repeat and especially a blame on DS. Hopefully better care will be taken this time.

There is a EHCP support thread and their is the most amazing wisdom on there.
it's called
EHCP support thread 6
if you put it in the search bar at the top it will come up.

Never think you are derailing the thread. We are here to support and be a pair of ears when you need it. And offer advice when we can.
The EHCP thread can be extremely helpful.

I hope DS has had a good morning and can settle for the rest of the day.💐

@Jimmyneutronsforehead It sounds like he’s doing well at his new school. I know it’s likely to be very up and down (because when is it not?!) but your posts have sounded positive recently. Was the pick up parking situation any better today? I hope he had a good day today in the end.

We had an email about the outcome of the panel decision today. They have deferred due to ‘insufficient evidence’ and made a load of frankly wrong and contradictory statements. I am not worried about it as DH has done his homework and replied pointing out exactly where they are wrong/being unlawful, but it’s just incredibly frustrating.

One of the LA’s points is that they can’t determine whether dd is ready to transition back into a school-based environment from MNHES (which she hasn’t even attended since June and they are fully aware of the situation and that the relationship broke down - she was withdrawn from the service at the start of September!), and they are now questioning if the school is actually suitable for her even though they suggested us look at it in the first place. They are saying her primary area of need is SEMH and the school provision is for pupils with ASC, which is the opposite of what the educational psychologist report states (significant area of need is SEMH but primary area of need is Autism). DH has pointed this out in his response, and also that her EBSA and SEMH needs are a direct result of the autism needs she has not being met. They also said there’s ’unresolved questions regarding parental preference’ and more casework is needed to establish our preference and DD’s views but we have been extremely clear multiple times what our preference is (including DD’s feelings). There’s a lot more in there but it’s just all absolute rubbish. It’s almost as if they have ignored every single thing we’ve ever said or provided information about.

The end of their statement says ‘Panel is not making a determination at this stage that (New School) is unsuitable or that DD requires specialist provision. The deferment is to ensure that the Local Authority has sufficiently clear and current evidence to make an informed placement decision based upon DD’s assessed needs, the provision required and her current circumstances.’

There’s no indication on what happens next. Their wording of ‘requires further casework’ is so bloody vague. There’s nothing saying who is now going to do what, where they will gather the information they apparently suddenly need from, if we need to give them any more information, if there’s a timescale on this deferral. DH has been very clear in his email and given a date we expect a response by, but I’ve found this whole EHCP process so bizarre. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m autistic and think the way I would do something is the best and most efficient way, but I dread to think how much time and money gets wasted on this process each year.

We are still going ahead with our plans for dd to start the named school. I have a call with the assistant SENDCO tomorrow to discuss a suitable transition plan so hopefully we’ll get an official start date too. The school is named in her EHCP so she’s going to start as I cannot delay and delay until the LA pull their heads out of their arses 😬

No better. It seems the other school finishes at 3:15. If we managed to get there bang on half past ready for pick up I reckon on street parking wouldn't be an issue, but we have to set off early to account for the possibility of traffic, and at christmas time it's going to be even worse because there's a supermarket and retail park en route and a roundabout where there is always traffic congestion. The main road is known for always having fallen branches and interruptions during rough weather too.

So when we got there it was just as bad, if not worse because we got there just before quarter past, when most of the other school traffic had already found a parking place. The barriers were up for the car park so we were chancers again but I can imagine the other school will cotton on to this and we will be banished soon enough.

Today though we got right to the gates and DS was about to say I don't want to go to playschool, but right at the last second he changed it to I want to go to playschool and he walked himself in.

I also emailed the SENCO doing the annual review and told her about my accessibility needs for the meeting as I have selective mutism and someone from the LA will be present via teams, and the last meeting where we had this set up at his old school made me look like a bumbling idiot and I was so embarassed. I could not get a word out, I couldn't even think of a sentence. I feel like if it was a face to face meeting with everyone present I'd have been OK, but there's just something about not seeing who I'm dealing with that puts up this barrier. Anyway, she's asked me to email my notes ahead of time and she will do the talking, so I'd best bare my soul to the EHCP thread at some point this week and hope some willing participants will help me sort this mess of an EHCP out. I just don't know what I don't know so I don't know what sort of help I need to be asking for.

I’ve found this whole EHCP process so bizarre. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m autistic and think the way I would do something is the best and most efficient way, but I dread to think how much time and money gets wasted on this process each year.

I think this is my issue. Not that I think my way is the most efficient way, but I can't see any other perspective so I can't stress test my methods or reasoning. I know it's a flaw I have, and I know other people have other views and possibly even better ways of doing things.

I can see where the misconception of autistic people lack empathy comes from. It's not that we lack empathy, it's that it's very difficult to see other perspectives. When we understand other perspectives we can become very emotionally involved.

The entire EHCP process feels impossible to navigate if you're autistic yourself. Wven accessing advocacy services can be extremely inaccessible.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead I can well imagine your son acting like a playground supervisor or parent because that is literally what he sees so why not? The social rules we make are so complicated aren't they? I remember when DS got "I" and "you" all back to front because I referred to him as "you" so why would it be wrong for him to? And really complicated to explain when he didn't have much language. I really feel for him with this other little boy. Every time you post you show how tuned in you are to him, how you can see the world through his eyes. He is so lucky to have you and he will learn so much by seeing you advocating for him.

@Leafywool how frustrating. It sounds to me like the caseworker will need to get the case booked into the next panel and have another go. It sounds like trying the new school is positive for DD and if it does work out the evidence will be much easier to build, plus you will potentially have school advocating harder to keep her too. Just the fact that she feels positive to try it is huge.

@2x4greenbrick thank you for the suggestions, I do appreciate them. Absolutely anything we think of he will dismiss as education and therefore not for him. I think we might have to tackle the elephant in the room on that but we're holding off for now. Still our glass is very much half full at the moment - college is going very well.

I remember when DS got "I" and "you" all back to front because I referred to him as "you" so why would it be wrong for him to?

Oh yes DS used to do this too!

He would say "you are very hungry" when he was hungry, or "you need an apple juice", but I instantly recognised why he was saying it. My nan took a bit longer to clock on, which meant leaving him in her care was difficult for a time. I had to leave snacks and drinks out like hamster forage across all short flat surfaces. She couldn't wrap her head around how he was confused about it. We got there in the end though.

We're still trying to sort out calling every man "daddy" though. It's really embarrassing when I am out with DS and my uncle, and I am calling my uncle: uncle, DS is calling me mum and calling my uncle dad. I want the ground to swallow me with the looks we get sometimes, and correcting him in public sometimes just makes it worse. He did it on the second day of his new school while he and my uncle were in another room and called him daddy in front of a bunch of TAs then I called them both over by their names and the staff looked confused, explained what they'd heard and I had to then explain to 13 teachers that right now he thinks all men are called daddy. It looks even worse because I look very young for a 30 odd year old woman. I'm 4'11, and have classic hypermobile skin, I still get funny looks as though I was a teen mum, and my uncle is in his 50s so I can see how to an outsider who isn't aware of the language gaps that it looks like a very dodgy situation.

I remember taking DD1 out when she was in a sling. FIL would keep inviting me to come to art exhibits with him which was great to get me out of the house. We did get some strange looks at times which would usually result in me handing DD1 over with a conspicuous 'Here, DD, go to GRANDAD!'

Social rules are hard, I agree. I am trying to communicate with a college for DD1 and I keep having to send draft responses to DH so he can help formalise them.

@Leafywool , that sounds really hard. I don't understand why LAs put so many obstacles in the way.

DD2 has attempted to go in every day this week even though she was poorly which I didn't actually know until she told me. But I received a lovely email from her school saying they knew how hard she was trying and how good I was at being supportive and encouraging. She was quite cynical saying that it was only because I was paying school fees. Maybe so, but I am getting what I paid for so am happy.

DS has really turned things round. He goes to clubs, has friends and is helping out at his school's open evening. We're not there with homework yet but I am not too fussed about that.

You're paying the fees because she is worth every penny and more.

Exactly!

@ISaySteadyOn good for DS and DD2. If what the staff member wrote chimes with how DD2 feels then perhaps Occam's razor says it's genuine.

@ISaySteadyOnFantastic re both dd and ds! Is dd still poorly? I feel like everyone has a cold at the minute.

I spoke to someone from new school today and she was lovely. They are happy to put anything in place to help dd - including no PE lessons which she was quite anxious about. We are going for a quick tour on Monday to have another look around and ask any questions and to meet her new tutor, then she starts on Tuesday 😱 I’ve been in the office today so haven’t seen her in person but I called and let her know what’s happening. I am not sure if she’s wobbling a bit since an official start date has made it very real. I’ll see how she is when I get back this afternoon…

For those who have transitioned back to school after a period of being at home - how did you approach it? The ball is very much in DD’s court with regards to how much she feels she can cope with and they are happy for her to do as little or as much as she likes to settle in. I don’t want to push her too much but also want to encourage her and get off to a good start.