Continuation of AR housing thread

[TheNuthatch]

Continuation of the Angela from housing thread. For those who want to moan about the government and share thoughts and articles.

The mood was antagonistic for some reason. The press, not letting Z talk much

But the trigger was the war will come to you, that's was the tripwire for US Trump and co

The X post makes me hope there's a way though, Trump will still want a deal

We (ie EU) can't pick this up really without US, we don't have the resources

There is bad blood between Trump and Zelensky. It can't have helped.

I thought Vance was the biggest antagoniser. He seemed intent on stirring the bad blood between DT and VZ, and kept glancing at the cameras whilst he did it. Trump should have shut him down, but instead he jumped in himself.

I wonder if it is a display for the benefit of enemies? Trump is more like an Emperor than a president. Being able to orchestrate these meetings with some countries publicly buttering up and other countries being publicly humiliated solidifies a hierarchy among the alliegences. Maybe China is the audience.

There must some method to this madness. Maybe that's it.

Apparently Zelensky has been on the phone to Macron. I wonder what is going on in the background right now? It must be frantic.

I don't think this would have happened the way it did, if JD Vance wasn't in the room.

I wonder if this will change Starmer's stance.

We can't pick this up can we?

Z knows he needs the US

Europe knows we need the US. And they are playing hard to get.

I hope they circle the wagons around him. He's due in the UK this weekend anyway.

Still nothing from Starmer or Lammy?

I think we can post support etc but realistically we can't offer a replacement

Isn't the usual tactic to prend they're still on the plane? Seems to be the go to excuse when formulating a response.

Not that I've seen, yet.
Other leader sending support though

I guess we are about to find out

Someone posted a good potential idea of what's behind it on the BBC thread.
That it's manoeuvres to get everyone to save face, and sign the bloody deal which will essentially give them back door nato /USA protection. Lesley said sign the deal and give us something to defend.

It's just a sad farce that Europes been left with its pants down trying to rally around zelensky but we can't take putin on.

They can't openly say this because putin won't like it but it seems to me this is exactly what USA wants, make it look like we get something (apparently there isn't much there), we have something to defend we are nato, putin won't cross us putin wins because he gets crimea and Ukraine has to let crimea go but... It gets to stop the war and keep the rest of his country!! With a side door USA back up.

@PuttingouttheFirewithGasoline yes agree on pants down bit for sure

X posts with support or sending leaders to ask really nicely about security whilst trying to show to domestic audience they are backing Ukraine. Although asking for security repeatedly and going on about peacekeeping troops is part of the problem.

Realistically it's theatre as everyone knows the US is needed.

I think they'll have to work it out with Europe mollified as what's the alternative? No deal and possibly no US support.

Trump is fully allied with Russia. It's clear now that he has no intentions of helping Ukraine, with or without a minerals deal.
To be fair, Trump has never pretended otherwise but Europe has had its head in the sand thinking they could somehow mollify him into doing something different. I fully supported this approach, until lastnight. It hasn't worked, and will not work.
Breaking ranks from the tone of this thread here, but I want to see stronger language from our leaders. They send messages of support for Ukraine, but still won't criticise Trump. Trump can shove his state visit where the sun don't shine.

I'm not sure that stronger language is needed, or at least, that stronger language would achieve anything.

Supporting Ukraine will have to extend beyond demanding that the US supports the Ukraine. And all European countries will have to get on board with the sacrifices required to fill the void if Trump retreats.

You can't yell disapprovingly at someone to please continue to help and while you're at it, please don't increase tariffs.

I'm not feeling very hopeful about what moves we actually have here.

@TheNuthatch this is a great thread and there's no way it'll descend into what others are like, it's interesting to hear your view

I just don't think Europe have the military stock

That's the crux of the problem, Zelenskyy knows this and has said a few times Europe can't this without the US

I wonder what Europe advice will be on security etc

Even we have said no to peacekeeping support without it.

Urgh, I'm hiding here.

Nuthatch - I think if this thread can operate on old school principles of playing the ball and not the man, then it will be remarkably different to other threads at the moment. Agree or disagree - I think we can just plod on agreeably.

I know, you're both right. Cool heads needed. My head says diplomacy is needed, my heart says nuke the fucking Whitehouse!
I'm sure my usual sensibilities will return.

I'm with you @Upstartled on other posts

Urgh

Not doing a good job of hiding here. Going to distract myself with real life before I lose the will.

Zelenskyy had landed in the UK, and will meet Starmer this afternoon at No.10.