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Thread 17: Starmer: Treading softly.

1000 replies

DuncinToffee · 30/01/2025 17:47

Lettuce pray

Keep it civil

Cat, dog, flowers tax much appreciated Brew

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5257111-thread-16-starmer-mad-world?page=40

OP posts:
Thread gallery
71
Notonthestairs · 05/02/2025 16:12

And now all I can think about is Johnson announcing his crappy Brexit deal on Christmas Eve 2020 as if it was some great win.

A deal he said which would enable us to do even more business with the EU, taken control of our regulations, unfettered etc etc blah.

What a crock.

bombastix · 05/02/2025 16:14

IMO they should forgive all those people convicted of parties and socialising during COVID. It has damaged people, particularly young people by being kept inside. It represents a huge sacrifice; and is still not recognized for just what a terrible thing it was.

derxa · 05/02/2025 16:21

bombastix · 05/02/2025 16:14

IMO they should forgive all those people convicted of parties and socialising during COVID. It has damaged people, particularly young people by being kept inside. It represents a huge sacrifice; and is still not recognized for just what a terrible thing it was.

I hope you’re being serious because I totally agree. It particularly affected my DS1 as he couldn’t get out and socialise.

bombastix · 05/02/2025 16:28

Notonthestairs · 05/02/2025 16:12

And now all I can think about is Johnson announcing his crappy Brexit deal on Christmas Eve 2020 as if it was some great win.

A deal he said which would enable us to do even more business with the EU, taken control of our regulations, unfettered etc etc blah.

What a crock.

You mean crook.

Blame everyone who voted for him. He alone made Brexit a disaster. He leveraged a situation he engineered for his own ambition into something far far worse than the deal May could have concluded.

I did not like Brexit: but actually we could have done better. Johnson oversaw the only free trade agreement in the history of the WTO that made trade between the parties worse.

It is a unique tribute to those who voted for the Conservative Party at that election. No other country which deals with the EU in similar proximity has as bad a deal as us.

SerendipityJane · 05/02/2025 16:38

bombastix · 05/02/2025 16:14

IMO they should forgive all those people convicted of parties and socialising during COVID. It has damaged people, particularly young people by being kept inside. It represents a huge sacrifice; and is still not recognized for just what a terrible thing it was.

Not so sure I can join you there.

Just for comparison, were all the convictions for breaking wartime regulations - especially blackouts - wiped away after the war ?

For better - or for worse - we had an elected government, and it was setting the laws.

And in this thread we have generally accepted that we're not terrorists or political activists who would deliberately break the law. Once you go down that path you are (as GBS said) "Just discussing the price".

So no matter how ill thought out the restrictions and regulations. No matter how egregious the government of the day was in ignoring their own laws. There is no justification for breaking them ourselves.

However I would have no problem if they were to be repealed and all pending cases dropped. And had the government of the day been more smart and trusted we might have been able to have implemented a better system.

Just for balance, I briefly agreed with JRM during the pandemic. When pressed over worrying about value for money he responded that in an emergency you want the plumber to fix the leak and worry about the bill later (I paraphrase). I was actually quite willing to forgive the Johnson government for expensive mistaken decisions made in the interest of keeping the public alive. However even I underestimated the Tory instinct for defrauding the public and we all know what happened there.

It's not a hill I will die on though.

itsgettingweird · 05/02/2025 16:52

One of the things we don't touch on in work generally is politics.

However it came up today in teachers workroom due to an estate being built and current proposals for moving a school and closing down an education centre.

I was extremely pleased to hear our beloved MP is loathed by others.

My favourite comment being "why do the people of Fareham actually like her and vote for her?"

itsgettingweird · 05/02/2025 16:53

Notonthestairs · 05/02/2025 13:37

Oh she knows that. Very little point responding.

It's the weekly 'Tory Calls Anyone Not Right Wing A Starmer Fan Girl' post.

🧐 spot on

bombastix · 05/02/2025 16:55

@SerendipityJane -

War is a particular legal state. So too is a national emergency. And these things give the government unique power over us.

Covid was not apparently a national emergency. Criminality by secondary legislation for normal human society is imo wrong.

Anyway, I would have done as the Swedes did. It does not seem they had a worse outcome than us, and the mental health of their population suffered less.

itsgettingweird · 05/02/2025 16:57

bombastix · 05/02/2025 16:14

IMO they should forgive all those people convicted of parties and socialising during COVID. It has damaged people, particularly young people by being kept inside. It represents a huge sacrifice; and is still not recognized for just what a terrible thing it was.

We were just discussing this today. Can't remember how it came up but I said how it's weird to think 5 years ago we were hearing if this virus and it was bad but we didn't really predict the following 18 months.

And Covid seems so near and yet a distant memory.

SerendipityJane · 05/02/2025 17:04

bombastix · 05/02/2025 16:55

@SerendipityJane -

War is a particular legal state. So too is a national emergency. And these things give the government unique power over us.

Covid was not apparently a national emergency. Criminality by secondary legislation for normal human society is imo wrong.

Anyway, I would have done as the Swedes did. It does not seem they had a worse outcome than us, and the mental health of their population suffered less.

As I said I don't agree, but it's not something I would oppose.

Same with the blanket pardons for men convicted of homosexuality pre-1967. Not because I believe it was just law. But because it will slowly be used as a way to quietly erase the suffering of those affected by future generations. Rather than remain as the outrage it was. Especially as it was purely symbolic. There was fuck all attempt to undertake any meaningful restitution.

I think we need to be careful here. respectful disagreement is against MN rules (as we well know), and neither of us wants to be anonymously shopped to the HQ and trigger another enigmatic warning.

DuncinToffee · 05/02/2025 17:06

And Covid seems so near and yet a distant memory.

Isn't that the truth

We went to a beer festival in February, there were already stories from Italy and there was definetely some unease amongst the crowd.
DS had uni open days planned in March and there was a feeling that they might be cancelled.

Weird thinking back about the anticipation

OP posts:
bombastix · 05/02/2025 17:08

Hahahaha!

Yes you won't have me disagree on 1967 laws. The same principle has the Suffragettes classified as terrorists. Governments have got slightly better at expressing regret. Not sorry.

PickAChew · 05/02/2025 18:24

Sweden did have rules during the pandemic but not ridiculous ones a d there was a much bigger emphasis on the social contract while we had all the ridiculous tiers that meant that people across the road from each other were living with different rules.

It all did an absolute number on the mental health of both my DSs.

pointythings · 05/02/2025 18:35

I'm not at all sure that Sweden type roles would have worked here though. They have a very different mindset.

PickAChew · 05/02/2025 21:57
Rocking Back And Forth Family Guy GIF

I shall strap my posting fingers together, tonight.

PandoraSox · 05/02/2025 23:01

PickAChew · 05/02/2025 21:57

I shall strap my posting fingers together, tonight.

What's up? There is madness all over MN at the moment so hard to tell what the issue is!

PickAChew · 05/02/2025 23:39

PandoraSox · 05/02/2025 23:01

What's up? There is madness all over MN at the moment so hard to tell what the issue is!

Trump threads just as insane as he is.

Zonder · 05/02/2025 23:40

derxa · 05/02/2025 12:49

Similarly I don’t think he can do any wrong in your eyes. I wasn’t that bothered when the Labour Party got in. The Tories deserved to lose. I thought he would be safe and dull. Instead he is playing student politics.

Stunned you're still saying this. Most of us on here are capable of seeing his faults and mistakes and still recognising the good he is also doing. Too bad you're so busy digging for dirt all you can see is mud.

ilovesooty · 06/02/2025 00:22

Cheguevarahamster · 05/02/2025 15:11

Tice even. Dammit autocorrect.

Labour readmits 4 MPs
BBC News - Labour readmits four MPs suspended for rebelling
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdd9qgy574eo

I'm pleased with that. Imran Hussain is my MP. If I'd wanted an independent MP I'd have voted for one. Now I expect him to keep his head down and not cause trouble.

I'm surprised Richard Burgon had the Whip restored quite frankly.

Rummly · 06/02/2025 08:02

Zonder · 05/02/2025 23:40

Stunned you're still saying this. Most of us on here are capable of seeing his faults and mistakes and still recognising the good he is also doing. Too bad you're so busy digging for dirt all you can see is mud.

To be honest, I think some form of delusion has taken hold on these threads. They’re plainly partisan left-wing, pro-Labour. Just admit it!

There isn’t any real criticism of Labour here. Every so often some undeniably bad thing about Labour makes the news - like, say, the slum landlord - and there are tuts of disapproval. But other than that the ‘criticism’ is just comment about how Labour could be doing better, as with its comms messaging, for example.

On the last thread I pointed out that Tulip Siddiq’s difficulties were being studiously ignored. There was ‘nothing to see here’ I was told. She’d referred herself to the Standards Commissioner, so was obviously better than a Tory. Now she’s gone - the anti-corruption minister!

What was mostly said to me, though, was that there’s no rule or code requiring impartiality or balance in the comment. Very true. But at least don’t pretend that these threads are anything but a Labour love-in. There’s nothing wrong with that, but why you all say you’re non-aligned and uncommitted is beyond me.

I enjoy reading the discussion. But I know it’s the MN equivalent of a campaign leaflet covered in red that falls on the doormat.

Notonthestairs · 06/02/2025 08:13

I think we can leave off the tedious discussion about whether we are sufficiently right wing for the satisfaction of Tory voters.

Our criticisms will never be enough for you. We get it.

God knows why you feel you must raise it every single thread but if you want to waste your time feel free.

Next!

Efacsen · 06/02/2025 08:24

Notonthestairs · 06/02/2025 08:13

I think we can leave off the tedious discussion about whether we are sufficiently right wing for the satisfaction of Tory voters.

Our criticisms will never be enough for you. We get it.

God knows why you feel you must raise it every single thread but if you want to waste your time feel free.

Next!

The extremely repetitive scolding is so so dull and boring

DuncinToffee · 06/02/2025 08:25

Badenoch is suggesting to make it more difficult for people to get British citizenship

OP posts:
Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 06/02/2025 08:34

Rummly · 06/02/2025 08:02

To be honest, I think some form of delusion has taken hold on these threads. They’re plainly partisan left-wing, pro-Labour. Just admit it!

There isn’t any real criticism of Labour here. Every so often some undeniably bad thing about Labour makes the news - like, say, the slum landlord - and there are tuts of disapproval. But other than that the ‘criticism’ is just comment about how Labour could be doing better, as with its comms messaging, for example.

On the last thread I pointed out that Tulip Siddiq’s difficulties were being studiously ignored. There was ‘nothing to see here’ I was told. She’d referred herself to the Standards Commissioner, so was obviously better than a Tory. Now she’s gone - the anti-corruption minister!

What was mostly said to me, though, was that there’s no rule or code requiring impartiality or balance in the comment. Very true. But at least don’t pretend that these threads are anything but a Labour love-in. There’s nothing wrong with that, but why you all say you’re non-aligned and uncommitted is beyond me.

I enjoy reading the discussion. But I know it’s the MN equivalent of a campaign leaflet covered in red that falls on the doormat.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5251589-thread-15-starmer-nolite-te-bastardes-carborundorum?reply=141349794

Please read the above and the following posts.
Hardly a ringing endorsement of Tulip Siddiq.
But none are as blind as those who choose not to see.

Page 3 | Thread 15 Starmer - Nolite te bastardes carborundorum | Mumsnet

Previous thread [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5244293-thread-14-starmer-the-starmeristas-strike-back?page=40&reply=141334312 https://www.m...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5251589-thread-15-starmer-nolite-te-bastardes-carborundorum?reply=141349794

bombastix · 06/02/2025 08:35

That may be the first thing I have ever agreed with her on; in terms of duration, criminality requirements and mode of entry into the UK. These are common requirements in other countries.

However she has all the credibility of a 9 pound note since this could have easily been done when she was in power.

I imagine Labour will be considering similar changes anyway.

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