Men staring at my 12.5 year old daughter

[AutismHelp1980]

My daughter is 12.5, she honestly looks 12.5, she’s about 5ft, petite and has started puberty. What I can’t get over she is just walking along with me; totally oblivious to the world but the number of grown men, I’m not talking young men I mean men in their 30s,40s even 50s giving her the once over is making my blood boil.

I know it’s not something I should point out but she’s still a shorts and tshirt, no make up etc child: and they still stare,

What do I do about this? I want to kill the dirty bastards and shout she’s 12 at them.

Unfortunately this is absolutely standard and makes life hard for many girls. Men are actually a menace. And people wonder why so many teen girls are suddenly identifying as male. They're wearing baggy clothes, cutting their hair off and binding their breasts to try to escape all this shit.

Congratulations. I'm personally bloody useless. I'm also not the most observant of people so I'd likely totally miss it either way.

Same is happening to my DD, similar age to when it started to happen to me.

We live in the center of a huge metropolis, my kids have been and will be exposed to all sorts. They need to develop a radar: generally speaking, I tell them to look out for leering men (ignore), homeless people with mental health problems (generally not to be worried about even if they’re shouting and renting, show understanding rather than fear for yourself), drunk/high people (cross the road, they’ll be erratic), groups of teen boys (give a wide berth, they’re normally totally harmless but they can’t handle their bodies yet and things and limbs get flung about), and my bête noir: electric scooters. Yell at them to get onto the road when the whizz past you and almost knock you out.

Very disgustingly, I was waiting to cross the road the other day. A woman who looked to be in her 20s was out for a run and pulled up in front of me waiting for the light to change. She was wearing a long sleeved running top and running shorts. Great figure, perfectly dressed for what she was doing, not obscene or revealing in any way. A man pushed past me to stand behind her. Pulled out his phone. Opened his camera app, zoomed into her backside, took half a dozen photos. I said “you’re disgusting” just as the light changed and the woman ran off. She had no clue thankfully. Just lawfully and correctly doing her thing - but turned into wank fodder without her consent just for being in the street. I told my DD this story and asked her to think about all these friends she has putting all sorts onto TikTok and instagram.

I think we are a similar age i wasent encouraged to date older men I was warned that if I did they would be after more than a kiss
It wasent uncommon though for girls of 14/15 to have boyfriends in their late teens early 20,s

My Dd went through an early puberty aged 10. She still only looks about 12. She is Autistic (& situationally mute). She's mainstream but carries a teddy bear at school. It's a few hundred yards, but I drive her as it keeps her safe from sexual assault. Not an overreaction as I've been with her & seen the stares / comments. I totally ignore them & exit.

So you frighten a would-be rapist off and he'll choose another woman instead, one who's autistic and doesn't have the social skills to manage the situation. . . . one who's younger and more naive, or one who's disabled.

Preaching to women how to deflect sexual assault onto another woman is like telling Canadian campers to outrun each other so that the slowest person gets eaten by the bear. It's a form of victim blaming and it's the most vulnerable women who suffer from it.

This is so logically flawed it is hard to know where to start. Stranger rape is usually impulsive and opportunistic. It's not like rapists go shopping and it's like can't get this one so 'fair exchange' will now try the younger one.

Next level of this ridiculous argument is to start suggesting you should just submit to the rape because otherwise the rapist is going to choose another younger or move vulnerable woman so better you than her.

And do you know what? Even if you are right, which I strongly disagree with, every human's first responsiblity is to themself. If you don't look after yourself properly, you can't help others and you burden society.

FFS.

I'm sure it is rare but I actually know two men who had sexual relations with much older women when they were 14/15 and they women were in their 30,s
And Emmanual Macron.

I started to experience similar at around that age as I developed quickly. It was honestly sickening the comments I received from grown men, even when I told them my age. Some men (and it is only some) are literally animals.

If you haven’t already please have a very clear conversation with your daughter about boundaries and consent, plus what to do if someone ever makes her feel uncomfortable. Run, find help, go into a shop, call the police etc. Nobody had that conversation with me and I learnt the hard way that sometimes ignoring perverts doesn’t work.

Have a talk about sex; this may seem odd but at 12 she may not even understand why men are behaving that way around her. It will help to point out just how disgusting their behaviour is when she understands the context. Make sure if she’s out alone or with friends she’s had a known time to come home, where she is going and who with. Independence vs safety is a fine balance. Internet safety and regular check of phones and social media is a must - what can seem innocent to a 12 year old is likely to bloody creepy to an adult. I’d also suggest she does some form of safety classes - kick boxing, karate for example. It’ll build her confidence and teach some basic safety if ever needed.

@something2say

I was a DV advisor for a long time, and I just want to come on this thread and share a story in the hopes it gives good advice to young women.

When a woman is walking down the street, say a busy summer street in a city on a hot Friday night and a man shouts out 'Oi love, nice bum / hello gorgeous / wow you are beautiful' etc - simply carry on striding onwards and give a 'hi! thanks!' and get gone. Do not stop, they do not get to pick you up because they chose to. Do not shame them or call them names. Just gratify their comment - because this is the safest thing to do.

I have in the past shouted out 'Fuck off you prick' and carried on - to my detriment - they have then had a go at me and I've been in danger. In the case I mentioned, the fact that she insulted him led to a terrible result.

Do not insult men you do not know, whose mental health you do not know and whose capacity for violence you do not know.

Say one nice thing to them, one response, and get yourself out of there. They are doing it to all the girls most likely. No need to stop

This is DREADFUL advice. OMG I don't know where to start. No! Just NO!

Ignoring these horrible men and not engaging is the way to go, not giving them a pleasant response! I despair!

It seems to be ingrained in some men .Always "harmless" or passed as "only looking luv!" Well no ,I doubt you would want me to stare lavisciouly at your well built teenage Son! I mean women just dont ! I have brought up my Son well and he doesnt do this . He was appalled at some of the sexism in the carry on films .

Do you really think that a rapist just gives up and goes home after one woman fends him off? No, he'll try again.

Next level of this ridiculous argument is to start suggesting you should just submit to the rape because otherwise the rapist is going to choose another younger or move vulnerable woman so better you than her.

No, that's you making shit up. My point is that it is not the woman's fault if she didn't resist, didn't know how to resist, didn't realise that she needed to resist, etc and that the way to end rape is to support each other against shitty men.

If you don't look after yourself properly, you can't help others and you burden society.

Disabled women already get that message daily from people who have no fucking clue what it's like to be female and disabled in a world designed for non-disabled men and I'm sick of us being called "a burden on society" just for existing.

It's difficult because they might be aggressive back and say they weren't staring at your (enter expletive) kid.

That will upset her more. Its a tough one to handle. Maybe wave at them and mouth what?!

It's why I despair of young girls at school wearing skirts so short you can in some cases see bum cheeks / knickers. They're not safe even at that age from perverts.

My 18yo looks about 14. Our neighbour actively enjoys watching her. It's part of a wider issue with the police already involved, so I mentioned it to them. They laughed and said well he isn't hurting you.

No matter how much progress we make, I don't think we will ever change this.

Wow this got out of hand quickly.

Lol at anyone being able to fend off rapists. You do know it's common to freeze. It's a defence mechanism. Self preservation and all that.

How do you imagine women will get pregnant in the first place 🤔

I think two generations of my family just wanted their kids to leave home as soon as they became adults. Seems that’s how they thought it could be done the fastest.

I remember my parents encouraging me to pair up with a ton of inappropriately aged men, now I think back.

Oh, and I never got the warnings you did.

In my own personal experience, it was the dirty bastards who married into the family that were more of an issue. But no one seemed to notice that because I guess they wouldn't expect an uncle to look at his niece in that way. It wasn't just the one either.

What he would like to do with his fingers.

Men appraise young bodies from an early age. They'll never change and no NAMALT but every man who isn't, is guaranteed to know one who is and never says anything.

The option a woman or girl is likely to take is from the following:

• fight: physical or verbal resistance.
• flight: attempting to flee physically, or mentally through disassociation.
• freeze: keeping still, often not knowing how to react so doing nothing.
• fawn: trying to appease the attacker.
• flood: overwhelmed by emotions, the victim is crying, shaking.
• flop: distinct from freezing, the victim feels tired in the face of the threat.

She's not to blame for freezing.

Shouting a breezy "thanks" is arguably a "fawn" variant and keeping moving is "flight".

All this, ladies.
I'm a bit older than your daughters now, but
"in my time" it was largely waved off by (mostly) uncaring parents.
Needless to say, I never had any kids and married my darling husband three decades older, so
I could "wiggle out" of all things sexual.
I'm actually quite happy like this.
😊

Witnessed this myself only yesterday. I happened to be looking out of an upstairs window early morning, to see a transit van slow down as it went past in the lane. The driver, an older bloke, was literally hanging out of the window and eyeballing something as he went past, turning his head to keep focused on whatever it was. My view of the pathway was blocked by a high hedge but I thought something weird was going on, it was so exaggerated. Two seconds later I saw what he had been looking at, a young girl, easily as young as twelve I’d say and in her school uniform, walked past the driveway. Just walking, being totally normal, minding her own business. She was doing a good job of looking straight ahead as if she hadn’t noticed, but I am certain she had, I recognised the I’m just being normal, going about my business, almost frozen expression. Poor girl.

I was never approached at a girl/ teen..or for that matter a young woman.. too ugly DD at around 14 and with me was approached by a older bloke, and being egged on by mates, started chatting her up whilst staring at her chest, DD said loudly 'if you are going to be a nonce and chatting me up at least look at my face!' He went back to howls of laughter from his mates..
I told them they were a bunch of paedophiles!

Problem with these blokes, they think they are Jack the lad not perverts when perverts is exactly what they are.