Men staring at my 12.5 year old daughter

[AutismHelp1980]

My daughter is 12.5, she honestly looks 12.5, she’s about 5ft, petite and has started puberty. What I can’t get over she is just walking along with me; totally oblivious to the world but the number of grown men, I’m not talking young men I mean men in their 30s,40s even 50s giving her the once over is making my blood boil.

I know it’s not something I should point out but she’s still a shorts and tshirt, no make up etc child: and they still stare,

What do I do about this? I want to kill the dirty bastards and shout she’s 12 at them.

This happened to me when I was child. Groups of men learning. Once I shouted "I'm twelve!" and then ran away but my heart was racing and I was running in case they attacked me. I kept running for several minutes.

I don't think it would be good to make your daughter feel afraid like I was, which might be what happens if you shout at them.

It might also draw it to her attention if she hasn't noticed already. If they're only staring then it's possible she hasn't, I think it's extremely unlikely she hasn't noticed if they are saying things to her.

Just be there for her and tell her about ways to be vigilant and protect herself. It's horrible the world is this way, this is such a common experience for pubescent girls. Disgusting.

I'm with you op it's bloody disgusting the dirty per&erts🤬🤬 I see this a lot was my daughter and one time I remember vividly was a couple of years ago when I was coming out of Tesco with my dd aged 10 at the time and two men I'm guessing were father and son one aged in his seventies and the son in his forties..as they walks past us the older man kept staring with an evil stare at my dd and his eyes were looking her up and down and as he passed he turned around looking her up and down from behind said something to the other man who then turned round looking my dd up and down from behind 🥵🥵🤬
It made me feel ill they both looked like a pair of dirty abusers I was so upset and angry I think I said dirty bas&ards but can't remember for sure I was just so disgusted
I have seen many looks at my dd as a child and now as a teenager..also remember my dd walking ahead of me when she was about 9/10 into the newsagents and an old man again gave her a look stopped and said do you want sweets my dd looked at him and I told her to go into the shop I'm behind you and told the man no she doesn't want any sweets why do you ask and he just gave me a look and walked off

sorry for the rant I'm just so bloody angry thst our dd's have to grow up with this s&it from dirty disgusting men 🤬🤬🤬

Not apologists... just rational observations!

You are aware that perpetrators have a 'type'... this thread is basically saying all men over 30 are into 12 year old girls! Its ridiculous.

And yes as a child I was groomed by a WOMAN!

You're all so obsessed that all men are evil..

Gosh @Edingril what a pathetic unhelpful contribution to this thread!

I've got a 10yo DD just hit 5ft tall and looks more like 12 than 10 and started noticing this while we were away the last few days. I was making direct eye contact with the dirty bastards while clearly saying to my daughter something like 'Now you're 10 years old and going into year 6 soon, what kind of backpack do you want for school?'

I was the same at her age, tall and starting to develop and I remember all the pervy old gits making comments when I was in my school uniform on the bus and making me feel uncomfortable, and the man who would hang out near school and flash the girls and rub himself. So many disgusting men out there.

this thread is basically saying all men over 30 are into 12 year old girls!

It isn't. It's about the subset of men who indulge in this behaviour.

I just want to come on this thread and share a story in the hopes it gives good advice to young women.

I was a DV advisor for a long time and I worked with plenty of beautiful young women out and about by themselves - heard what went on and found out how they dealt with it and found out the consequences of those choices.

I then had a call about a newsworthy situation with a high profile issue which I cannot disclose but which informed my new opinion about what to do when catcalled on the street.

I myself dealt with it in a variety of ways over the years (13 to 49) and now I usually do 80% one way and 20% the other way, based on what I learned at work.

When a woman is walking down the street, say a busy summer street in a city on a hot Friday night and a man shouts out 'Oi love, nice bum / hello gorgeous / wow you are beautiful' etc - simply carry on striding onwards and give a 'hi! thanks!' and get gone. Do not stop, they do not get to pick you up because they chose to. Do not shame them or call them names. Just gratify their comment - because this is the safest thing to do.

I have in the past shouted out 'Fuck off you prick' and carried on - to my detriment - they have then had a go at me and I've been in danger. In the case I mentioned, the fact that she insulted him led to a terrible result.

Do not insult men you do not know, whose mental health you do not know and whose capacity for violence you do not know.

Say one nice thing to them, one response, and get yourself out of there. They are doing it to all the girls most likely. No need to stop. We don't have to do what strangers tell us to do. (I didn't know this until I was about 26; vulnerable young abuse survivor.)

The 20% other response I have is this -

If I am being followed or someone does something to me, I clock it and take it, try to get somewhere safe BUT if my back is suddenly against the wall, I become quite verbally aggressive - loud, making noise, clearly asking what the F they want.

The reason I do this is that research shows that making a fuss is the main reason a rapist wouldn't choose a girl. This one will go quietly, that one will not. If a man gets my back up against the wall, I will NOT go quietly and I will cause a fuss and make people see. I have only had to do this about twice.

I just wanted to say this in case it is useful - don't stop, but don't antagonise strange men. If you're caught, make a bloody noise.

The Gift of Fear book taught me a lot too.

A Modest Proposal

Every girl, at her first period, should be issued with a taser locked to her fingerprints so that only she can use it. It wouldn't stop White Van Man, but it would give her an extra option against men who are physically near enough to pose an assault threat.

It's hard and horrible.

I was taught to ignore it, however I'm still not convinced that's the right path. I remember an old man in the post office referencing my 'child bearing hips' when I was about 11. I wasn't with my mother, I think she'd have gone cataclysmic. But when it came to more subtle stares etc it was more of a 'it's up to you to not let what they're doing affect your day' rather than 'it's up to them to not stare at a child'!!!

Why is it that more often than not when people (usually men) are doing something 'harmless' (i.e. staring doesn't technically hurt anyone even if it is icky and inappropriate) the onus is on the receiver of the action (usually women) to be the one rising above it. I feel like it continues to send a message that males can do what they like without retribution and women need to learn to rise above it/be the ones processing their feelings/deciding to speak or not speak etc. The focus should be on them not doing the behaviour in the first place, not us working out what to do once the action has occured.

I just watched Douglas is Cancelled and am all riled up once again about the actions of some men. Both those who could be considered nice and those who are not nice. As as Karen Gillans character says, if there are so many (nice men) around, where are they (when it counts)?

Just gratify their comment - because this is the safest thing to do.

I'm not at all convinced that 'gratifying their comment' makes the world a safer place for women and girls - continuing to normalise and tolerate unacceptable behaviour. Isn't ignoring rather than engaging in any way a more appropriate response?

I think this thread is getting carried away.. this is just average normal men with their god-given instincts

That's why I hate men! They are gross!

Started from the age of about 11 with myself and my friends. Men can be fucking gross.

Pahahaha!!!!

I mean, I hope he was alright but also that's great she knew what to do if feeling threatened.

Nope. 'Normal men' can exercise self control - they're not animals. Normal men are capable of basic respect for women and girls and would be mortified to make them so uncomfortable.

I bet even the men who don't give a shit about how they make women and girls feel, or even enjoy their discomfort, can usually control their eyes and mouths absolutely fine if there's a father or partner present.

This is insane. do NOT do this.

If you accuse a man publicly of ogling a 12 year old girl, you are accussing him of being a paedophile. You pick on the wrong person who gets angry and you could well end up in defamation litigation.

That's not to mention basic risks of massive verbal altercation, upset to your daughter, risk of violence to yourself.

@ToBeOrNotToBee why on earth would you say this? What do you think that the type of man who is perving a 12 year old girl is going to say if they are the wrong end of an attempt to 'publicly shame them'? They aren't going to admit it or go quietly are they? They are being put in a position where the only option is to deny and deny violently and vehemently.

It's a stupid idea.

Oh I forgot the man age 75 (same as my dad) that said about me last year at my mums funeral "I've been in love with her since she was 11"

It's about risk mitigation.

Yes there is the desire to tell people what they're doing wrong, to 'stand up for yourself' and call out their bad behaviours.

The unfortunate truth though is that males are physically stronger than females. A man the same height as me and a lots skinnier would be able to physically over power me. I know that, even if they're unfit and underfed, it's just a fact that they could do me serious physical harm and I wouldn't be able to win that fight.

So if there is an option to walk away and live another day, even if it makes me feel angry and unhappy then that's what I'll do. That's what I will teach my daughter to do. Assess the situation, where possible don't put yourself into a vulnerable position, when possible leave and find a safe location, if there is no option to avoid or retreat, then placate and try to diffuse the situation, make noise to get attention from by passers. The absolute last option is to fight back.

So you frighten a would-be rapist off and he'll choose another woman instead, one who's autistic and doesn't have the social skills to manage the situation (and has a nine in ten lifetime chance of sexual assault compared to a whole female population baseline of one in three), one who's younger and more naive, or one who's disabled.

Preaching to women how to deflect sexual assault onto another woman is like telling Canadian campers to outrun each other so that the slowest person gets eaten by the bear. It's a form of victim blaming and it's the most vulnerable women who suffer from it.

If you see a man hassling a woman, insert yourself into that conversation and then freeze him out of it. Break through that "better her than me" forcefield and support her.

God I hate them. It started for me at 11. A frizzy 11 in a primary school uniform. And I hate that, as a pp said, sometimes you have to not antagonise them for the sake of your own safety. After 30 years of street harassment, I genuinely agree with the taser idea below.

I got the most male attention when I was 12-17. Disturbing.

Hiya, I completely agree. My focus was always on safety though, getting out of that situation. I got so sick of that angle on things but for now it works.

It does not deal with, as you say, the underlying attitude that it is OK to use violence and threat to get what you want. I used to think of these things as theories, and then the phone would ring and I'd have to help someone work out what was practical instead, and life saving.

Can anyone remember as a kid getting a handshake from a grown man and him tickling your palm? I never knew what it meant until a few years ago. Some reet dirty bastards out there man.

No what does it mean?

Just to add the devils advocate argument.

Once I went for a walk with a friend and her parents. They have three children (one being my friend) now all grown up. We walked by a playground and we did kinda stop/slow down a bit. We weren't stopped and staring, but as we walked by the parents were talking about how my friend used to play there with her siblings. 'Do you remember when x managed those monkey bars for the first time?' 'Remember when y broke his arm on the old slide?' 'Yeah we still joke that's why there's a new slide'...etc. It was a trip down memory lane. Then her dad got this kind of sad look on his face, I asked if he was okay and he said 'I always walk by this playground quickly, as I would never want to be accused of something by staring into it. We have so many memories here yet if I'm on my own I wouldn't feel comfortable taking a moment to pause and ponder them'.

That always stayed with me. He'd actively changed his behaviours because he didn't want anyone to feel uncomfortable or assume things about him, but he had 30 years of memories from that area. I know many of us actively change behaviours to accommodate for others all the time. This just felt like a relevant story in this moment.

So, whilst very unlikely to be the rule for all of those men, some of them might just be looking at you both and innocently thinking of then their own daughter was younger, or sister, or friend etc. I know I used to be often caught staring at people when I was daydreaming and not really focusing where my eyes were going. I don't do it as often now as I have no commute and am usually too busy trying to keep my eye on my own two children when out and about! However I can remember the last time. A woman came up and asked why I was 'oggling her husband', I apologised and said he was the spitting image of my brother who died the year before and seeing him walking around was kind of heartbreaking but also bringing a weird level of joy because I missed him so much. She was nice about it after that.

So, I know you shouldn't stare, but sometimes there are deeper reasons than just being a perv,

Believe me, even this autistic woman can distinguish between the hungry look of a sexual predator and an innocent look.