Extent some people go to satisfy their want for a child

[kaffeine123]

This is going to come across as judgmental but I’m finding it a bit shocking the extent some people go to, to satisfy their yearning for a baby.

I’ve read a thread today which made me shocked at some of the comments encouraging this lady to separate and have a second child, even if it ends her relationship and is not in the best interest of her first child! There are other threads like this too.

If you cannot provide for the child emotionally and financially, when does the yearning for a baby become selfish and it should instead be a matter for a therapist to work through in coming to acceptance.

I know someone who is planning her second child at 45/46 which will involve IVF and she is already in significant debt from the treatment for the first and childcare fees. I just think why! Try and be happy with what you have.

I have never felt this level of yearning for a child, but I can only assume it is a feeling so powerful that it makes you unable to look at this logically (am I too old to have a child, can I afford to have another child, is my mental health robust enough to have another child)

I agree with you OP but it's very unpopular opinion on here.

There was a thread a few days ago about a woman wanting to get a puppy to join the family and she was slammed by people telling her she was selfish and that dog ownership was really difficult and that she shouldn't get a dog because she knows nothing about them and has never had one before.

It was absolutely crazy and nobody would ever say that kind of thing on a thread about having children even though it's a much, much, much bigger commitment.

I think it’s a primal thing-the strong desire to have a child. Let’s face it if this didn’t happen the human race would have died out long ago!

I agree 100%.

Just because your hormones say so, doesn't mean you should.

I admire you for calling off a wedding to someone who had moved the goal posts.

Lots of urges are primal but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to go through with them.

I'm with you. I know someone who ended her marriage because her husband didn't want #3, end result is her existing two children now live between two homes and she never did find someone to have #3 with. Now if there are no children in the marriage and the husband is refusing to try for the first despite showing willing to do so before marriage that's a different story, but to disrupt the lives of already born children for a theoretical hope for another is madness.

I think we are all equally driven by our hormones and biology but we all have a different balance and mix going on so it will manifest as different urges and desires. There are obviously environmental and cultural factors at play but I believe biology is still a major factor.

I think back to when I was a teenager and how most girls became interested in boys over time but some were able to manage this desire alongside maintaining focus on their school work and friends whilst some seemed to become boy obsessed. It was such a strong and almost desperate desire in my friends that looking back I can definitely see it was biologically driven. I see similar with men who become obsessed with status and domination at all costs. This can manifest in violence but more subtly too With an obsession with career, status and money. I think this is a biological drive too as most people can rationally see how destructive these traits are for the individuals involved.

It's not just a yearning though. It's a biological drive to procreate. We are animals and that is what we are 'here' for. Of course human beings live happy, fulfilling lives without offspring because there are numerous ways to forge a satisfying path in life, but for the vast majority of our species, passing on our genetic material is an irresistible urge.

I'm minded to agree to an extent. What bothers me is the deliberate verbal and mental gymnastics to justify having a child when the reason is solely selfish, I have quite strong opinions on the benefits of parental time and money vs additional siblings and think a lot of people kid themselves and others on what they're providing their children when they could just admit they wanted another child, it's the insincerity of it all. Especially when it comes to blended families and adding more children to complicated situations.

for the vast majority of our species, passing on our genetic material is an irresistible urge.

I would hope that most humans have the common sense and logic not to procreate regardless of anything else.

The posters writing that they had children easily but would have been okay without have absolutely no idea of what it’s like to struggle to have a child. It takes over your life and I know I would never have been truly happy if it had not happened. My sympathies for those going through it.

I don't really understand it at an emotional level, as I don't have children, but I suppose I can see academically why someone might feel desperate to have a child - I struggle to understand why they should feel such desperation to have a second or third that they would end an otherwise fulfilling relationship or spend money they can ill-afford on IVF .

There's a strong suggestion on here that people are selfish to allow their biological urges to override common sense. Whilst I think there is something in that, each situation should be considered on its own merit. For example, perhaps I could understand this argument in the context that having another baby would put the mother's health/life at significant risk, and there is no one around to look after her existing children.

However, going into financial debt or even leaving a marriage in order to have a child is not something I think any of us should be judging. Again, there appears to be a spectrum here on the extent to which we all feel this urge, and if you're on the fence about having children, you simply can't understand what it's like to be at the extreme end.

Wanting a child is always coming from a place of your own wants. It's a powerful biological driver. As a scientist the meaning on life is passing on DNA. I'm not sure it's easy to ignore that primary urge.

Also its very subjective who is making great desisions. Young fit and broke or older with equity for example.

The bottom line is if your a woman you have a hard line in the sand biologically speaking and it's not regretting a holiday. You can always go on that holiday later. With a baby once you hit that certain age you can never, ever get that chance again.

For that reason as a mum I will not judge.

However, going into financial debt or even leaving a marriage in order to have a child is not something I think any of us should be judging

But what about the effect on the existing child/children of living in poverty or having to divide their time between two parents’ houses? I do judge people who would allow a biological urge to take precedence over the wellbeing of their existing kids.

I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but I agree OP. I even know a couple who had one child and then tried for nearly 10 years, round after round of IVF costing them a fortune (for which they are now in debt), and sadly they didn’t have a second. I can’t imagine expending that much money and more importantly focus and energy that could have been better spent on their child. I feel like the child they had probably lost out. That said, I agree that unless one feels that level of urge for a child it’s probably impossible to understand.

What make me very sad though is couples who want a child so much they use a surrogate. Utterly grim that their desire to have a child (sometimes more than one) overrides their moral compass and the realities of surrogacy.

However, going into financial debt or even leaving a marriage in order to have a child is not something I think any of us should be judging

Really? Because I would absolutely judge a parent who purposefully made their existing child's life poorer just so they could try and have a second baby.

Absolutely agree

I agree OP. I'm not saying everyone should wait for the "perfect" circumstances to have a baby because that would nean hardly any babies would be born! But having a baby when your relationship or finances are insecure is madness.

And don't even get me started on surrogacy......

Who are you to decide on what's best for their wellbeing? Provided they are loved, fed and clothed, what else should be prioritised is down to individual circumstances, and as an outsider it's not your place to judge.

I would hope that most humans have the common sense and logic not to procreate regardless of anything else.

There's always hope I suppose.

You might want to read Maslow’s Theory of Heirachy.
Other primal urges are connectivity, control of environment and survival- which ones would you not go through with 🤔

Being loved, fed and clothed is the bare minimum and it takes more than that to raise a happy well rounded child.

Do tell @Beezknees? For my benefit and for that of anyone else considering TTC, what things do we need to ensure we can provide beyond love, care and food?

Being loved, fed and clothed is the bare minimum and it takes more than that to raise a happy well rounded child.

You took the words right out of my mouth.