Extent some people go to satisfy their want for a child

[kaffeine123]

This is going to come across as judgmental but I’m finding it a bit shocking the extent some people go to, to satisfy their yearning for a baby.

I’ve read a thread today which made me shocked at some of the comments encouraging this lady to separate and have a second child, even if it ends her relationship and is not in the best interest of her first child! There are other threads like this too.

If you cannot provide for the child emotionally and financially, when does the yearning for a baby become selfish and it should instead be a matter for a therapist to work through in coming to acceptance.

I know someone who is planning her second child at 45/46 which will involve IVF and she is already in significant debt from the treatment for the first and childcare fees. I just think why! Try and be happy with what you have.

I have never felt this level of yearning for a child, but I can only assume it is a feeling so powerful that it makes you unable to look at this logically (am I too old to have a child, can I afford to have another child, is my mental health robust enough to have another child)

The human race hasn’t survived because “women had a strong urge to have babies”, ergo we should be grateful for the women who had babies without thought or consideration, it’s survived because we’re programmed to enjoy sex (or at least the idea of it) and reproduce.

@johntorodesfatcheeks who said that poster had "two healthy children"? They didn't. Stop projecting as a way to find a gotcha and prove your point.

You say yourself you've never felt any yearning so I guess it's unsurprising that you don't understand it. But surely you have empathetic qualities and sufficient emotional intelligence to know that there is such a thing as yearning for a child and that the urge that triggers it is primal and a fundamental part of being human!

Tbh if people only had children according to logic very few children would be born, ever.

Why does anyone bust a gut to have anything they want? Why not just laze about on the sofa all day eating crisps feeling “meh” about everything?

...but if I was unsuccessful I’d like to think I’d be happy with a childfree life...

From that statement above OP, that's why you don't get it. For me the idea of being childfree was an unthinkable nightmare, I couldn't see any other path for myself. I was lucky and know it now although I didnt conceive easily. Even now if I hear of someone who wanted kids but couldn't I am so sympathetic, maybe too much so because to me it's a bit like hearing about someone who was paralysed after an accident, like its the worst fate.

@PracticallyPerfectedIt

Not sure those examples are good equivalents as Im not sure the comparison works.

My point is that the line needs to be drawn somewhere. And having children isn't a right in my view.

I realise others disagree

Given the declining birth rate which is currently concerning policymakers and governments, I'm not sure I agree with you OP. I think it's probably been more surprising how many women DON'T want babies, when given palatable alternatives to marriage and motherhood, than how many do.

Yeah, you are horribly judgmental.

Yearning for children is basic biology. All life on earth is hardwired to want to procreate.

Humans seem to be pretty good at resisting those urges, but by and large, it is the norm to expect all species of plants, animals and fungi to focus their energy on procreation. How else would life continue?

I imagine that adoption was much easier in those days, more unwanted babies needing homes, so the couples who were desperate for children would have been able to adopt more easily than now.

I had children easily but can understand every word you are saying.
It was a primal urge in me and even a few months of trying started sending me into over drive. My worst fear before I had kids was that I wouldn’t be able to. Honestly I knew my life would be totally meaningless and empty if I didn’t become a mum. I would have gone to any lengths had I not conceived. Anything.

@Newsenmum

Thank you 🌷
your kindness means a lot, especially on days like today.

OP I’m similar to you with having had a baby over being childfree (and I was strongly childfree for a long time!). If I had remained childfree though it would not have been the end of the world for me too but I ended up wanting a baby late in the game and was fortunate it worked out for me. I love DD more than anything.

Every woman has their own approach, thoughts and feelings with kids/no kids and I would never diminish that. No one is really right or wrong to feel a certain way.

It's all about trying to accept that other people have different experiences and feelings, OP.

The other issue is that more men are deciding they don't want children at all. Which is their choice but that shouldn't stop women from having children if they want to.
I called off my wedding because my then fiancé announced he'd changed his mind and didn't want children.
I don't regret it even though I've never married. My ds is more precious to me than anything. Having a child is a fundamental part of life to me.

Would I leave a marriage to have a second child. I don't know. Possibly. It would come down to the strength of the marriage.

YANBU

My DH and I had very practical hats on when talking about having kids. We agreed that even if it meant no kids, no kids older than 35, and no IVF. It doesn’t mean I am less maternal or love my kids less or whatever, it means I considered impacts on other things that others don’t seem to consider.

YANBU

It's an inherently selfish choice. It's fulfilling a need in the mother, but they don't stop to think about the child's life.

I'm a child my mother should never have had. Same for my siblings. And I suffer for it, even as an adult. All for what, her hormones? Bollocks to that.

I look at the world. The planet is dying. War. Poverty. And yet we still continue to bring kids into this shit show.

There's so many excuses trotted out on here. I've even seen advice to get accidentally pregnant. It's appalling and does nothing for feminism.

I agree OP, some people don't seem to consider well-being of existing children

You can never understand those feelings because:

• You didn't really wanted to be a mother
• You had a child very easily

You sound very judgemental about something you seem not to want to understand or emphatize with. There are some situations/circumstances that are too personal and affect people in very different ways and nobody can/should judge.

In any case, complain about the people doing IVF purely for gender selection, that is unethical instead of judging women who just want to be mothers.

Surely it is no surprise that different people prioritise different things?

I’m someone who had a huge biological need to have children….and made the decision not to have them, despite being in a happy marriage where I would have been well-supported financially, practically, and emotionally.

Why? Well, it’s complicated I guess. I’m not even sure I can explain it. I think I’m too selfish to have children, but I also think having children is a selfish thing to do. I’m a primary teacher and I love my job. I have a LOT of patience, tons of energy, and really enjoy being around children. But, it still looks like such hard work and drudgery to raise your own. I like my sleep, free time, space and hobbies. Lots of people say you’ll never experience such love, but I’m not sure I actually want such a strong attachment to someone that’s programmed to grow up and leave. I also know some people who quietly regret having children I don’t want to risk being that person. Finally, what if I brought a child into this world and it had to suffer in some way? I couldn’t handle that.

Apologies for my stream of (garbled) consciousness.

I’m in my late thirties now and the biological need has diminished quite significantly since my twenties. It doesn’t stop me from wondering what it might have been like to have children. I think if I had had the choice taken away from me, it would be very difficult to accept.

And yet countless posters on this thread have attested to having a strong biological urge to procreate. I also had this and it wasn't connected to having sex. This is why many people still want babies even if it requires IVF or surrogates and doesn't actually involve sex at all!

I think all biological urges and factors influence individuals differently. We all sleep, have sex and eat differently so why would our desire to have children be exactly same? I do think there is a growing sentiment that has often been expressed on this thread that somehow those with the strongest desire to have children are a bit irrational and not as cerebral as those that make more 'sensible' choices. I happen to think this is complete BS as we are all governed by our biology. This is the underlying force behind why we prize most things as a species (branded goods, status, appearance etc). It is completely logical that we prioritise the thing that we care most about. If that is having children then as long as you can care for them appropriately then why on earth wouldn't you prioritise this? If it's sleep or funding an expensive lifestyle then if course prioritise that!

@SquishyGloopyBum

"I'm a child my mother should never have had. Same for my siblings. And I suffer for it, even as an adult."

Why do you consider yourself to be a child your mother shouldn't have had?

Same here! I'm lucky enough to have had 2 children but if it turned out that I couldn't then, meh,, so be it. I would never have done ivf. Can't miss what you've never had!

@SemperIdem that still doesn't make any sense as an opposing argument. Firstly, the reason we are programmed to enjoy sex is in order that we continue to reproduce. Secondly, as you yourself stated, we are programmed to enjoy sex AND reproduce. The fact that the former is true does not negate the latter.

You make some interesting points @Bumpitybumper.

I would like to know why some women seem to be more driven by their hormones than others. It's clearly a physical thing.

I also wonder why some women just want to keep on having babies. I'm talking about four or more children here. The drudgery involved in having a large family is very off putting to me.

I cautiously agree when it comes to second and subsequent children because I really feel that despite any biological urges or drive to have another, the existing child has to come above all of that. However, I say this from a privileged position of two healthy children. I suspect I’d have done literally anything to have my first though and I have huge sympathy for anyone struggling or unable to conceive.