Likely consequences of this benefit fraud

[beefmassaman]

I'm looking for some advice regarding this situation and if anyone knows what the likely outcome will be for my family member.

I have a family member who I saw yesterday who confided in me about their situation and seems to be in a bit of a mess emotionally over the whole thing. She's very anxious about what will happen to her. I'm going to refer to her as Marie.

Marie is divorced and has three children in full time education from that marriage. A few years after the marriage ended she met someone else and unexpectedly fell pregnant. The father (I'll refer to him as John) wanted her to keep the baby as he'd never had the opportunity before and at 43 felt it was his time. Marie agreed.

Shortly after they had agreed to have their baby Marie moved with her children in to a property owned by her boyfriend. The house had a market value of about £1250pcm and as Marie didn't want to live with John at present he offered to let it to her for a reduced sum of £950pcm. She says she insisted on paying rent so that she had autonomy over parenting her children and her own space for her family.

A few months later the baby was born and Marie began claiming Universal Credit. She says at present she gets about £1500 every four weeks. She doesn't know how much is for housing.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, John has practically moved himself in. I've heard her say to him before that he's not permitted to stay over at her house because the DWP would come down on her. It's fallen on deaf ears and I think she's buried her head in the sand over the whole thing.

She showed me her online banking and she pays ALL of the bills and utilities and 70% of the food she estimates, but as John has now moved himself in she's reduced her rent payment to him to about £500 a month, occasionally paid in cash. Sometimes paid by bank transfer. But he will often send it back to her for some reason.

Now she's been asked to take part in a random entitlement check and has three problems.

1). Landlord is the father of her child, not allowed as far as we're aware.

2.) He's adamant about them being a 'family' and spending as much time with his son as possible, putting her in a position where she's breaking the law.

3). Having been asked to produce 3 months of bank statements there is virtually no record of rent paid there. Money often passes backwards and forwards between them in that John will lend her money but she showed me that she always pays it back.

Basically it all looks like what it is as far as I can see and it's not going to be good for her! Anyone know what will happen to her next?

Anyway, to cut a long story short, John has practically moved himself in. I've heard her say to him before that he's not permitted to stay over at her house because the DWP would come down on her. It's fallen on deaf ears and I think she's buried her head in the sand over the whole thing.

She committed fraud and allowed a man who wasn’t her children’s father to basically squat at her home

He's adamant about them being a 'family' and spending as much time with his son as possible, putting her in a position where she's breaking the law.

not if she updated her claim fgs

I think she's fucked, sorry.

If they decide it's fraud then obviously she'll be required to pay it back and may get a criminal record. She should contact the cab

she is screwed

and rightfully so

all she needed to do was update her claim with her change in circumstances

whole lot of shit is heading her way

What? He is the youngest child’s father, he owns the home and she reduced her rent because he was living there too, so that’s her agreeing to him moving in. She could have continued paying rent properly and told him to move out and she could have moved somewhere else if he refused. But she didn’t. She reduced the rent because she was living in his home WITH him now, rather than alone. She agreed and went along with it. Not an innocent woman being taken advantage of. They knew what they were doing. She deserves to be told to pay her benefits back.

I hope she has updated her claim to a joint claim now? Because she isn’t single and is living with him.

Yes, I think you're all correct. She's been incredibly stupid.
What will happen now, does anyone know? Will she be asked to pay it back or will it be a criminal record, a short custodial sentence? What?

'Marie' is you OP isn't she?

Has she got a tenancy agreement?

Yes she has a tenancy agreement.

She’ll have to pay it all back, simple.

I hope she has updated her claim to a joint claim now? Because she isn’t single and is living with him.

this is what she has not updated

that there is another adult living in her property
that she is in a relationship with that adult
that he is financially supporting her

I think she is hoping that's what the outcome will be, but seems convinced they're going to lock her up.

they will ask for 6-12 months of bank statements

they will see she has been transferring less than the tenancy agreement

and then…. money from the “landlord” transferred back to her

is he in receipt of benefit or works?

He's adamant about them being a 'family' and spending as much time with his son as possible, putting her in a position where she's breaking the law.

He hasn't put her in a position where she has broken the law, she has done it herself, as she continued to claim under false pretences.

I think she will be expected to pay it all back, and get a criminal record. She is unlikely to go to prison.

This is multi layered and prolonged fraud

It won’t simply be a case of paying it back

she has committed a crime against the tax payer and the DWP are clamping down HARD

It is unlikely that she will go to prison, she is a mother of 4 - mothers are not locked up unless the damage to their children is worth it for public safety or similar

I don't think anyone can tell you.
She'll certainly have to pay it back but the rest will be based on several factors. Eg how much she's fraudulently claimed, how long she's been committing fraud, whether she updated a claim with false details or failed to update a change in circumstances etc.

She should hope for the best and prepare for the worst

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think it's unlikely she'll spend time inside a prison. Maybe a suspended sentence.

What’s the rent on the tenancy vs rent she’s paying vs what she has told UC is her rent?

They won't lock her up, but she may be told to pay it back. Or rather they will be asked to pay it back.

When you say he has 'practically' moved in, what does this mean? Does he still have his own home, which he pays bills on etc? There is room for some nuance - eg the three nights a week thing is a myth, but if they are living as a couple, she's not entitled to claim as a single person.

this is actually evidence that she committed fraud

as the amount stipulated is £500 less

oh and often that £500 transferred back to her by the LL

it’s £500 less than the agreement

and that £500 often transferred back to her by the LL

when is her compliance interview?

So this isn't your typical benefit fraud where your claiming as single so getting and extra £30 a week or whatever, Marie is getting an extra thousand a month on top of your single benefit fraud.

When he moved it and Marie gave him less rent she didn't even tell UC that her rent has gone down.

This is major, major fraud and Marie isn't some weak women that you are painting her out to be. Like she has no autonomy to letting her landlord live with her.