The EBSA support thread (emotionally based school avoidance/absence)

[BrambleyHedge]

Following this thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4996315-a-question-to-all-those-who-think-school-refusal-in-schools-is-increasing-due-to-lazy-enabling-parents?latest=1

I wondered if some people would welcome an EBSA support thread. I haven't seen another one so if there is already one I can delete this one. For those dealing with EBSA - I don't know about you but sometimes I just want to cry and scream with all the stress and I thought it might be healthier to write it down and share with others going through similar issues.

My son is 15 yr 11 and is currently upstairs refusing to go to his mock GCSE this morning. He is too anxious. He is only doing 5 GCSEs and has small group tutoring in his school rather than the normal classes. There are several in his year with EBSA so they have their own group. He is finally being assessed for ASD after 2.5 years in CAMHs list and also finally being assessed for EHCP after mediation due to council refusal to assess. He is what they used to call high functioning but unable to deal with education. I am practically in tears this morning trying to get him to go in. He usually doesn't go in until about 11 so this is early. He doesn't sleep.

So enough about me. If you too are having a crappy morning then please talk.

It would be good if this thread can be for those who are dealing with EBSA. Well meant advice or judgement from others may not always be welcome or helpful. I have tried literally everything over the last two years to get my son to school and am learning much of this is beyond my control. Sometimes there just isn't an answer.

I have put this in Chat for now so it gets seen. It could fit in education, SEN, or some other subjects.

@Icantpeopleanymore so you have the full information to make an informed decision, JR doesn’t have to be expensive. JR proceedings themselves are brought in the child’s name so they can be eligible for legal aid in their own right. This doesn’t include the pre-action letter. That is in the parent’s name. If you aren’t eligible for legal aid, you could look at SOSSEN who can help free of charge.

If the LA names a school that isn’t your preference or school is inappropriate but the LA name a school/type of school rather than agreeing EOTAS/EOTIS, you can appeal. If DD is out of school, you can request an expedited hearing. If DD is unable to attend for medical reasons, including mental health related, the absences must be authorised, so no fines.

Thank you @SearchingForSolitude .

I had a webinar thing with a law firm yesterday, for an SEN group I'm on, he was really helpful but said a pre action protocol letter would be around £900 and like you say, not covered by legal aid. Even if they are ridiculously expensive, even if it were half that, I couldn't afford it, and I definitely wouldn't be eligible for legal aid.

I'll look at SOSSEN, thanks. I need a break from work to get my head around it all, I haven't been able to make sense of JR, appeals, etc. I'm pretty good at taking in and retaining information but I feel like my head is full.

So if they name a school, I appeal because I know DD won't attend, they could still say, well that's it, that's the school, could they then enrol her and get her transferred as it were from her current school anyway?

I know they can't fine you for mental health absence, but I've heard so many stories of schools taking parents to court anyway even with evidence, I don't have anything in the way of evidence as DD won't visit the GP and they wouldn't give evidence anyway, CAMHS waiting list is a year...I just don't want to be in a worse position.

@Icantpeopleanymore the LA could name a school in section I even if you object. However, naming the school in section I of an EHCP does not automatically register DD at the school named. This was previously covered in Regulation 5(3) of the Pupil Registration Regulations 2006 and spoke of the ‘expected first day of attendance’. It is now covered by Regulations 4&5 of The School Attendance (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 2024 and talks about the ‘starting day’. The government’s ’working together to improve attendance’ guidance still talks of the expected first day of attendance in paragraph 207 onwards. The government’s EHE guidance also states “it is up to the child’s parent whether to arrange for the child to be registered as a pupil at the school” in 8.10.

If you do not agree with the finalised EHCP, you can appeal. At appeal, it isn’t the LA who is making the decision. That is SENDIST. Even if SENDIST Orders the school is named, you can still choose to EHE or make your own suitable arrangements, and ordering the school to be named does not automatically register DD at the school either.

The school doesn’t take parents to court. It is the LA who prosecutes. Try not to worry about that. The LA has acknowledged DD is unable to attend by referring to the medical needs tuition service.

I can't thank you enough @SearchingForSolitude that is so helpful. Sorry for all the questions, your knowledge is so valuable.

Hi @miffmufferedmoof sorry you and your DD are going through this.its horrible when there is no end in sight.

@Icantpeopleanymore sorry nothing is getting any better; I hope half term is looming for you to catch your breath.
Have you had any progression with your son?

We urgently need a new thread setting up if anyone is inclined ?

@Icantpeopleanymore I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all this, especially on top of the divorce..I can completely sympathise from that angle. Mine was done and dusted long before EBSA became an issue but dealing with it all alone whilst ex is miles away criticising from a distance like everyone else who doesn't get it was v v hard. You've had great advice here but isn't it bloody appalling that we have to become legal experts to outwit the system and force them to provide. It makes an absolute mockery of the concept that they care about getting kids the right provision. 😕

Thanks for starting this thread @BrambleyHedge I hope it's ok for me to jump in on this thread. DD8 has "high functioning" ASD and I am pre-empting the issues with school refusal we are going to have.

It's already started to creep in, every morning she tells us she doesn't want to go and we have tears. She is struggling with friendships in school despite the school saying she's fine and no issues.

We are having severe and violent meltdowns every day at home and hoping to find some hope in this thread as we have all this ahead of us I'm sure.

The system is so unbelievably broken for SEN children it all just seems to unfair for them.

Hi @letsfaceitwhoisnt. I imagine a new thread will start soon as this is nearly full but you're doing the right thing to get pro-active. There's some great FB groups too .."notfineinschool" notably. Despite it being fairly well known now, girls especially are always written off as "fine" when actually they're masking like crazy and it goes off the rails at puberty. I think the best thing you can do is get knowledgeable about the law, what LAs have to provide and the various bodies like SENDIASS who are supposed to help.

@RhaenysRocks thank you so much for this.

Yes, I just can't believe how unbelievably hard it is to navigate towards and from of help if any.

I will look into this. Thanks so much.

her EHCP will be due for review at the end of April. I’m not sure about calling for an early review as I don’t really know what I’d want from it.
There’s no therapy in the EHCP - sensory OT (private) was recommended but LA didn’t agree to fund and I didn’t have the energy to fight it. We self funded 16 sessions which was good but not life changing.
School are paying for 30 minutes Mindjam each week and I’m funding a 1:1 alternative provision which I stay with her at.
There are 2 other settings in my area that could be possibilities, but I don’t have much hope she get on any better with either of them (and they’re probably full anyway).

@miffmufferedmoof the aim of the early review would be to improve the EHCP to better meet DD’s needs. That would include therapies - OT, SALT and some form of MH therapy at the very least. Although you may have to appeal. If Mindjam isn’t in F, you could look to secure that too - and increase the hours.

You don’t need to fund AP. Use IPSEA’s model letter to request AP.

Unless the other settings are wholly independent, being ‘full’ is not enough of a reason to refuse to name them in the EHCP. And you could look at EOTAS/EOTIS is a school isn’t appropriate.

@letsfaceitwhoisnt what support is the school providing? Does DD have an EHCP?

Hi everyone, can I ask what your boundaries are around screen time (tv, phones, consoles) for your dc during the day when they're not at school (particularly for teenagers)?

My HE teens can’t access any screens (unless for online learning and tutorials) until after about 2:30/3pm. Not because we follow a school timetable but because they have projects, classes, activities etc to do during the day and if they don’t they are expected to be creative. Usually means baking, playing outdoors, playing instruments, meeting friends that type of thing. We actively encourage them to be a bit bored at times as it really helps them with the discomfort of that feeling and they usually end up doing something really creative!
What do you do?

@Luddite26 would you consider starting the new thread? I always look out for your posts, so wise and kind.

@10pfreddos DS exhausts himself doing as much school as he can manage. No screen bans for the rest of his school hours. We were quite strict for most of his life but this is a completely new world we are navigating.

Thanks @Piony that's a kind thing to say.
I have started a new thread but I don't know how to link it. It should be easy to search

EBSA support thread 2

Hopefully we can see how everyone is getting on. Come on over and say hello.....

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5297998-ebsa-support-thread-2

Hopefully this is the link. Thank you @Luddite26

Hi @10pfreddos it's quite a struggle really but we don't have a TV so 6 year old home ed is allowed tablet time on a morning before 9am to chill. Some mornings he does some work on IXL and some interactive work on Twinkl or £2 tuition hub so that doesn't count as screen time.
He has chill time again early evening but not for hours or in his bedroom.
At his dad's on a weekend he has unlimited access which we find ridiculous.
But I don't use withdrawing screen time as a punishment.
15 year old uses tablet for IXL and to watch programmes. He's sort of past watching YouTube. Sometimes we all watch a film on a tablet!
2 year old gets a bit of YouTube time on a Friday teatime while waiting for tea but mostly watches bing or Paddington on a tablet if he's not very well or needs to calm down as we don't have a TV.
I don't take tablets on car journeys etc I'm old school against that and not allowed to go to sleep with a screens.
But I feel every day we need to cut down but I think that's how it is now.
Try not to go on my own phone in front of everyone especially at meal times or while they are doing work or reading etc.😀

Many thanks to the posters who began this thread and well done everyone who continues posting to support and be supported.

Thanks @Luddite26 @Piony @solsticelove

Really good to hear other perspectives! My son doesn't go on his Xbox during school hours, but has had access to his phone. However early help are saying he needs to have no access to any tech during school hours. He's currently not attending school at all - EHCNA in progress.

My only gripe is that he was doing well with doing some school work in the day, getting up, going to bed, bathing etc. However since we have been trialling it, he has completely disengaged with everything! We have tried this complete tech ban in the past and it's not proven helpful but they threatened with 'escalations' if I didn't comply with the advice 🙃

That sounds absolutely awful. It's punishment for mental health illness.
I remember years ago when eldest DD had EBSA or ASD burnout in y9 and she couldn't get out of bed some days and friends would come out with all sorts of advice on punishing her for being ill.
Naomi Fisher has written some really good opinions on kids being punished for not being able to engage with how they are demanded to engage.
It's easy for people to see Xbox as a big no but I wouldn't see any harm in using it for a break at lunch time. We used Alexa for timers and the kids are more responsive to that than me going in and saying times up.
That's really cruel 10pFreddos and it's not working . And DS will lose his safe space.
I just think we have to see screens differently. They are a tool for good too.
Escalations it's just bullying and ignorance.

The most important thing for me is managing a child's mental health cos once school and all these enforcers are long gone a child's mental health is still fragile and that can damage in the long term ❤️

I can't stop thinking @10pfreddos what do they mean by escalations?

@Luddite26 I was so alarmed I didn't ask to clarify, but from the tone of the conversation I'm guessing it meant a mash referral.

That's a good idea, I have thought about offering an hour of 'free time' over lunch so he can do whatever he wants then.

I pore over every post by Naomi Fisher & missing the mark! I bought their book 'why the naught step makes things worse' and explained to the early help worker that it made a lot of sense and why consequences & rewards have never worked (not that she listened obviously)

We have an Ed psych appointment in a couple of weeks so hoping that's helpful. I'm so worried it's all turning into a parent blaming exercise.

I know there are people (in general not so much EBSA families),who would post saying kids aren't allowed phones in school so same should be if not going.
But, imo, if you are setting tasks and they are being done and the only thing that isn't is actually attending school because they can't, being threatened like that is just lip service to actual MH problems.