The EBSA support thread (emotionally based school avoidance/absence)

[BrambleyHedge]

Following this thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4996315-a-question-to-all-those-who-think-school-refusal-in-schools-is-increasing-due-to-lazy-enabling-parents?latest=1

I wondered if some people would welcome an EBSA support thread. I haven't seen another one so if there is already one I can delete this one. For those dealing with EBSA - I don't know about you but sometimes I just want to cry and scream with all the stress and I thought it might be healthier to write it down and share with others going through similar issues.

My son is 15 yr 11 and is currently upstairs refusing to go to his mock GCSE this morning. He is too anxious. He is only doing 5 GCSEs and has small group tutoring in his school rather than the normal classes. There are several in his year with EBSA so they have their own group. He is finally being assessed for ASD after 2.5 years in CAMHs list and also finally being assessed for EHCP after mediation due to council refusal to assess. He is what they used to call high functioning but unable to deal with education. I am practically in tears this morning trying to get him to go in. He usually doesn't go in until about 11 so this is early. He doesn't sleep.

So enough about me. If you too are having a crappy morning then please talk.

It would be good if this thread can be for those who are dealing with EBSA. Well meant advice or judgement from others may not always be welcome or helpful. I have tried literally everything over the last two years to get my son to school and am learning much of this is beyond my control. Sometimes there just isn't an answer.

I have put this in Chat for now so it gets seen. It could fit in education, SEN, or some other subjects.

just spoke to DP and he’s managed to coax her in and she sounds OK.

Is it possible your DD has developed emetophobia, @ImAlwaysknackered ?

DD developed it when she was 10 (actually she was much younger than this, but it didn't start to really cause problems until then).

Sorry to dip and out of this thread. I read, but don't have masses to contribute. DD3 is still unable to leave the house, still unable to let the teachers in the house (although did allow one in on Tuesday, but not Thursday).

Please do push for all the support you can get. It's a slog while you're doing it, but you can get there eventually.

Yes she has :( it started in February when she was in the same room as her older sister who she saw vomiting.
its been downhill from Feb onwards.

eldest DD also has it after a trip to a safari park left us all with a bug inside the car unable to get out straight away. That was when she was 7! She’s 15 now…

@ImAlwaysknackered how is DD after the fair?

@LittlePickleHead I hope you all have a positive weekend after making your decision Nd I hope your DS is relieved. The Minerva looks very good I hope he can get on and settled with it.
Even though it's natural to have doubts don't listen to negativity your own or others.
You know why you have all made this decision. I hope DS manages to reset.
The EBSA pilot scheme sounds very interesting so I hope that helps too. Good luck

Surprisingly OK! the head showed her all doors would be open and not locked, another TA asked for a hug and said it was lovely to see her.

we are going to write about it in her victory log for her tutor when she comes next week.

Thank you for asking 💐

That's great news I hope DD can get something out of her positive experience even if it's a happier weekend

I hope all the kids are letting themselves think about Christmas and look forward to it?

@Lougle nice to see you still here.

I think my parents wonder what I do all day and we are just exhausted!

I really need to pull my finger out and get on with some Christmas shopping.

I can't even get a list from my children @Piony! What I would give for a day with no demands!

I am becoming increasingly concerned about DD10 impulsive behaviour.

tonight she has gone in to DD who’s 19 months and put milk on her! I know something happened cause I heard DD cry and then footsteps running across across the landing. 😢

she has always said she has things in her brain telling her to do naughty stuff as well as good stuff and that she can’t help it.

she is such an attentive girl so I don’t know how she can do this!? She looks after everyone!

I feel so lost

I think the non-existent/snail pace help or intervention doesn't help right now. @ImAlwaysknackered. It's a worry because you can't face going through all the motions and their being no help at the end of the ordeal. You have no energy left. I can't analyse silly/random behaviour like that or try to pigeon hole it as I know nothing. Maybe you could keep a behaviour diary to see how often she is doing things.
I would go back to the doctor's if you feel it's happening more.

I have worries that GS has other issues than autism as he hears voices and can be random but waiting and waiting for any help is draining so just keeping going and waiting.

I didn't realise you had a younger child too @knackered no wonder you are.💐

@Lougle can't get a list from DD, it's like she can't make any decisions at all right now.

I've come down with a cold, bloody great timing as teaching 9 hours out of 10 the next two days and need a voice for Wednesday's meeting!

Speaking to her dad tonight, he's going to be at the meeting too, not that he'll say much but I'll be outnumbered otherwise.

DD isn't completing any school work at the moment, I have told her just to do what she can manage and I'm hoping if they agree tutors on Wednesday it'll mean they can reduce the subjects she needs to do so she can manage to at least make some progress with those.

My headteacher suggested I fill out the referral for the medical needs school anyway even if she won't attend, as it's more evidence she can't engage, got to balance that with her having less pressure and demands though as just trying to get her to talk about that is impossible.

Hope your cold is running it's course @Icantpeopleanymore and you are getting through it all. Good luck with the meeting today. Hope dad steps up a bit
Fingers crossed for you

Well... meeting done.

Short version, LA tried to tell me that they HAD to refer to their preferred medical needs school first and she had to try it before they could offer anything we lose, I called bollocks and used @SearchingForSolitude list, thank you so much! And they and the head of year wrote it down and the LA said they will speak to a manager to check it..their faces dropped when I started reeling it off!

School are reluctant to fill out a referral for a place she can't and won't go to.. understandable! Totally backed us up that there was more than enough evidence that the environment of school was the issue and any school probably isn't right for her.

So,over to the LA, wait to hear from them about other providers they will offer or if they stick to the line that the medical needs school is the only option, the referral asks for parent and child views, so I guess DD filling it in with 'i don't want to, I can't, no, stop asking me to, I want to stay at home' might actually solve that problem!

I think with Christmas we will get time, so that's good news, she needs time. She's stopped doing any work really now. Just need to give her time to recover, another month before anything will happen at least. I really need to push the LA to stop banging on about this school because as lovely as it sounds to me, it's not me that's got to go.

Onwards!

Amazing work @Icantpeopleanymore and whoop whoop for @SearchingForSolitude's expertise and support.

This is info I have utterly failed to find in my county.

Deep in EHCP admin jungle here. Send gin and biscuits, and ideally a solicitor.

How’s it going with ehcp @Piony

DD10 got her diagnosis of ADHD today, it was totally expected but still feels weird. I just hope now she can get some help. I’ve emailed the LA SEN team to let them know as she’s currently having an ehc needs assessment done.

Well done @Icantpeopleanymore. You can probably already guess this, but don’t be surprised if KCC comes back to you and says they don’t use other providers and it has to be the medical needs tuition school. KCC lie all the time.

If I remember correctly, someone made an FOI request about APs KCC use. I know the response didn’t actually include all providers they use, but it is worth finding it on whatdotheyknow then you can at least show them they did/do, in fact, use other providers. There are others they use as well as the ones I listed.

And, I know I have posted it previously, just because a provider isn’t registered/on their approved list/someone they have used before doesn’t mean they can’t use them.

If the LA refuses to provide a suitable full-time education, you can send a pre-action letter.

@Piony, if you want to post or PM where you are, I will post/PM a few suggestions. Don’t feel you have to post/PM your location if you would rather not, though.

@Piony I feel for you..want any tonic with that gin? Sounds like you need a shot! I'm currently having a hot toddy as feel rubbish again, early night, once I've laid in bed and played the whole conversation over in my head a few times of course!

When they asked if early help had helped...I told them the early help worker had told me I should be doing her job and that she couldn't give me any more support as I had basically done everything she would have done..their faces 🤣

They asked me where I was in the EHCP process and I nearly said 'waiting for KCC to refuse it, after next Friday' but I didn't 🤣 not looking forward to that whole process at all so I feel for you. My favourite saying is 'you can't eat an elephant whole'...got to break it down into smaller pieces I guess and just deal with one bit at a time!

I kept very calm but I was firm I think...school are annoyed they're probably going to have to fill out a form that will take hours for a placement she won't go to, but that's on them, if they'd dealt with this in year 7 with more support then we wouldn't be in this position.

I'm not convinced they won't push the medical needs school but I'm really not prepared to try to force her to go, I couldn't if I tried. They did say there's outreach available, I guess that's worth a try, but again, it's only going to be short term and she cannot cope with that.

Her dad did make the point that their 12 week placement and aim to get her back to the MS school was going to set her back months too.

Just hoping I do hear from the LA this side of Christmas and can continue the fight for something more suitable.

@SearchingForSolitude ooh that's interesting, thanks, I'm looking now....just scrolling through 300 with the keywords alternative provider provision KCC...

It's disgusting they lie. I sat outside a meeting whilst waiting for DDs transport tribunal last year and heard how much debt they were in then, millions.

I did that tribunal and they said I'd submitted over 300 pages of evidence and they'd never had so much, apparently I was the talk of the council building for a bit 'that mad cow trying to get us to pay for a taxi 🤣' got it pretty quickly though....fat lot of good now she's not using it!

DD is particularly moody this evening, probably worried about tomorrow and knows I had a meeting today. Having to dum up all the calming feelings not to just say ' why won't you just please tell me what you want?!'

I know it's not her fault but I'm exhausted and it's such hard work. Harder for her I know..

@SearchingForSolitude thank you, I think we are good at at the moment as DS wants to try mainstream college.

@ImAlwaysknackered how do you feel having received the diagnosis? I remember reading that it changes "everything but nothing" and finding that spot on - but that was with autism so no meds. I hope this is positive for you both.

I still find the lying takes my breath away.

@Icantpeopleanymore if you can’t find the FOI response, shout and I will dig it out.

I once had my LA tell me something for DS3 wasn’t possible. They couldn’t hang up quick enough when I pointed out we both knew that was a lie because DS1 had it.

Thank you @SearchingForSolitude I did have a good look but couldn't, I'm not sure if I searched the right things but I did find one about spending on EOTAS which was interesting.
Knowledge is power really isn't it!
I'm so lucky I have the resources in my school to know what's possible and I know most of the terminology, plus I think I probably am autistic myself or have ADHD so I can completely hyper focus on one task to obsession, learning and retaining information really well, until I get bored of it. I still have all the knowledge of so many things because I literally can't help myself and it helps.
However can I remember to insure my car or go to the dentist, absolutely not! 🤣 I really feel for parents negotiating this without that background.

You've been so amazing, thank you.

I just want them to realise that pushing for the medical provision just is a waste of my time, schools time and will set her back. At the end they asked if there was anything we wanted to add, I just made it clear that DD can't advocate for herself, she can't talk, she needs to trust us as her parents that we won't force her to do something that will harm her and that we are listening to her and believing her when she says she can't go back.
They did say that was completely clear, so I hope we will get somewhere.

Meanwhile I need to go to bed! I also can't get enough sleep 😴

@Icantpeopleanymore the AP provider FOI request and response is here.

The EOTAS/EOTIS/EHE with PB/PB/DP FOI requests are really interesting. There is a woman who has submitted FOIs about it to all LAs for the last few years. Although the data is only as good as what LAs disclose. Some of the figures are suspect, and some are, quite frankly, outright wrong. I’m not sure some LAs actually understood the different types of data. I’m sure some also intentionally misled too. That’s before you look at the LAs who refused to give some or all of the information or who didn’t respond at all.

Totally agree with that quote! It hasn’t changed anything but also definitely has!