The EBSA support thread (emotionally based school avoidance/absence)

[BrambleyHedge]

Following this thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4996315-a-question-to-all-those-who-think-school-refusal-in-schools-is-increasing-due-to-lazy-enabling-parents?latest=1

I wondered if some people would welcome an EBSA support thread. I haven't seen another one so if there is already one I can delete this one. For those dealing with EBSA - I don't know about you but sometimes I just want to cry and scream with all the stress and I thought it might be healthier to write it down and share with others going through similar issues.

My son is 15 yr 11 and is currently upstairs refusing to go to his mock GCSE this morning. He is too anxious. He is only doing 5 GCSEs and has small group tutoring in his school rather than the normal classes. There are several in his year with EBSA so they have their own group. He is finally being assessed for ASD after 2.5 years in CAMHs list and also finally being assessed for EHCP after mediation due to council refusal to assess. He is what they used to call high functioning but unable to deal with education. I am practically in tears this morning trying to get him to go in. He usually doesn't go in until about 11 so this is early. He doesn't sleep.

So enough about me. If you too are having a crappy morning then please talk.

It would be good if this thread can be for those who are dealing with EBSA. Well meant advice or judgement from others may not always be welcome or helpful. I have tried literally everything over the last two years to get my son to school and am learning much of this is beyond my control. Sometimes there just isn't an answer.

I have put this in Chat for now so it gets seen. It could fit in education, SEN, or some other subjects.

Just had the Ed psychologist round...DD wouldn't leave her room. Was here nearly 2 hours but I still felt I could say so much more! Hopefully she has a good picture now though, left a questionnaire for her but I can't see her filling it out...I'm exhausted, it's do hard going over everything.

Hopefully just the fact she wouldn't come out to engage with the EP will be proof she has additional needs that aren't currently being met at school. I hope you get the report soon and that it's helpful.

We've had a small win today, after 9.5 months off no lessons in school DD went in for an hour to do English! And actually enjoyed it! I didn't think it would happen, I am very proud today.

@Icantpeopleanymore if you think there is more to say, you can email the EP.

I know this in MN and not written for a professional to read, but when discuss it with professionals, frame it as ‘couldn’t’ rather than ‘wouldn’t’. The LA and some professionals will latch onto the won’t/wouldn’t and see it as a choice.

Hope you can get some breathing space tonight @Icantpeopleanymore . At least it's another hurdle over. And not coming out shows she can't just switch it on and off.
How are you both tonight?

@ImAlwaysknackered that's amazing, great news!

Thanks all for thoughts about today, I will email her as I know school have records of DD having shutdowns at school and panic attacks, I want to make sure they give her the information about those.

And yes, thanks @SearchingForSolitude I do mostly, I definitely did today when I was talking about school. She seemed understanding and I did explain that she couldn't even talk to her guitar teacher for nearly a year even though she wanted lessons, and how difficult she finds it to speak to adults in shops etc, so hopefully it's clear how much she struggles.

I was completely washed out after it, DD hid upstairs for quite a while but I just didn't mention it again and offered her an episode of traitors (we've still not finished watching it so avoiding spoilers!) and she happily came down for that. Gone to bed happy and hopefully can make it to my mum's tomorrow as we have plumbers coming out to the house whilst I'm at work...I should book tradesmen every day 😂

Not sure if it's worth trying the questionnaire. She'll probably just shut it down.

Meanwhile still haven't heard from the LA about timescales etc! Two emails last week and a phonecall today..... nothing!

Have a paediatric checkup for my son Wednesday, for his ASD referral...been waiting over 3 years and have RTC referral in but heard nothing. This week is going to be exhausting.

I've got both draft EHCPs now, one seems really good and the other feels a little vague. Does anyone know of anyone who looks over them/gives EHCP advice?

I feel really crap today, I am finding it difficult trying to manage everyone's needs. I am being asked to attend a SALT group for my toddler but can't always go because of having to be in for my other DD tutoring. Then I have to try and get the other DD ready to attempt school. She has done one lesson so far and would like to do another tomorrow.

I feel like I'm juggling everything constantly and I'll be honest I'd just like one day where both girls were not at home and I wasn't limited in what I can do during the day.

@ImAlwaysknackered SOSSEN offer a reasonably priced draft checking service. If that is something you are interested in.

If you want to look at it yourself, go through all the reports with highlighters.

Highlight all DD’s special educational needs in one colour and all the provision to meet those needs in another colour. Each need should have corresponding provision.

Then go through the draft and make sure all the highlighted needs are in B and the highlighted provision is in F. Make a note of anything the LA have omitted from the draft, any needs without corresponding provision, any woolly and vague wording, anything the reports have failed to include, and any reports the LA has failed to take note of.

When you go through F, look out for vague and woolly wording. For example, “access to”, “would benefit from”, “regular”, “up to”, “or equivalent”, “opportunities for”, “as appropriate”, “would be useful/helpful”, “such as”, “e.g.”, “etc.”, “as required”, “as advised”, “key adult(s)”, “small group”. Provision must be detailed, specified and quantified, otherwise the EHCP isn’t worth the paper it is written on and cannot be enforced.

When you come across vague and woolly wording, check the reports to see if they are woolly and vague or if the LA has watered down provision. If the reports are vague and woolly, ask the LA to go back to the report writer(s) to make the reports detailed, specified and quantified. Provision in EHCPs is taken from the reports, so if the reports are vague and woolly, the EHCP will be too. If the LA has watered down provision, make sure to request the LA sticks to the wording in the reports.

Also make sure any health or social care provision that educates or trains is in F. For example, LAs like to put things like SALT, OT, physio, etc. in G (health care provision) when it belongs in F.

If DD’s tutoring is being provided by the LA, they cannot compel you to facilitate that. If a second adult is required, the LA should be funding that. Although they will often tell parents they have to.

@ImAlwaysknackered sorry you are feeling so overwhelmed. It's understandable. And you feel guilty if you aren't spinning all your plates. I hope you get a breakthrough with somebody soon.
Just in case you haven't stumbled across it there is an EHCP support thread on Mumsnet but I'm sure you know.

Hi all, hope everyone is doing well.
We are still waiting on the EHCP draft, feels like limbo.
DD seems very down again, felt like progress a couple of weeks ago but back to barely speaking, no showering for days...I asked her about school at the weekend and what she would like, think that's done it.

Hi all. Wading through treacle here. DS's mood has dipped and I'm keeping a watch on my own mood. DH and I hardly ever even put the TV on in the evenings at the moment, we're just so drained by the time DS goes to bed. Even choosing something to watch feels too difficult. I need to ring my parents too, and clean the house, and exercise, but these all take energy I am finding it hard to muster.

@ImAlwaysknackered well done indeed to your DD. That sounds like an impossible juggle with your little one.

Thank you! She managed another hour yesterday!

She wants to try for an hour tomorrow but my mum being sick has put a spanner in the works. (She has emetophobia) hoping she can still manage it.

Could anyone link me to the EHCP support thread please I am struggling to find it.

Sorry to hear your son's mood has dipped. I definitely think they go through phase's.

@Icantpeopleanymore I hope you hear about the draft soon!

I'm sorry @ I'm always knackered I don't know how to link it but I put it on the search and it's
EHCP support thread 4
That is the current one.

Thank you found it @Luddite26 was looking in the wrong place!

Sorry to read today's posts. We have had a rollercoaster couple of weeks with GS 15 y10 too. Is it something in the air. It's on a knife edge sometimes the moods. Tries hard then does something astoundingly unexpectedly stupid and all good work goes to waste. Teenagers now are so much harder than 20 years ago. So many dangers on the internet that they could fall into or outside on the streets. It is exhausting before you put EBSA on top of it all
We are trying to get out on walks while the weather is ok trying to improve everybody's winter moods and things can be good while on them but then it's phones and screens and defensive secrecy.

Just keep going everyone because you have no alternative..💐

@ImAlwaysknackered hope DD manages tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

Horrible week here with ds. He's in y11 so exams getting closer and closer and he's off more and more..it's snowballing really. I've got his largely absent dad breathing fire down my neck and just can't seem to find a way to motivate him. I have to go to work and hold it together after another stressful morning arguing with him. 😥

Sorry to hear you are going through this @RhaenysRocks .
Have you any idea why your DS is avoiding school in Y11. Has he a history of not wanting to engage or is it fairly recent development. Arguing just leaves you feeling so rubbish and horrible when you have to go to work. Teens can be so angry too and I think they don't even know why sometimes.💐

Thank you @Luddite26 . It's a combination of things really. The school itself is genuinely brilliant with him. Late diagnosis of ADHD and ASD and some social issues have caused him to miss school, so gets behind, so doesn't want to go, so endless cycle. It's just hard and I feel very alone. Threads like these help a great deal, though I am also sad to read so many people going through similar or worse

@RhaenysRocks it must be really hard for you both with a fairly late diagnosis but seemingly little guidance to know what to do about it?

Is he receiving all the support he needs and extra tuition classes? It's extra hard at this point because the exams are looming and you can feel like he's going to fail and the fear of failure makes it harder for the child to engage so you are in a vicious circle.

Not ideal for you but to ease off the confrontations can he agree to do revision work at home? Sometimes when parents step back with demanding they go to school it might just click and he might go at this point

Is there a male mentor at school he may listen to with his dad not really helping at all.?
Take the pressure off yourself there will be other opportunities to do GCSEs if he can't do them this year. And the problem is it is can't not won't.
Sometimes when you back off they figure out it's up to them - obviously sometimes they don't 💐

Just found this thread. Im in a similar position to OG poster @BrambleyHedge my son is 15 and his school attendance has been going downhill since he started year 10 in September last year. He has ADHD and Dyslexia diagnoses which are part of the problem, the other part is his relationship with his Dad who I divorced last year. I moved with both my kids (Dad still lives in our old house) in December. He has two GSCE's to sit this year and I can see things going very badly. I've just come out of 4 years of EBSA with my daughter (who also had ADHD and Dyslexia but is now doing much better at college) - I absolutely feel that after the slog of that plus the divorce (which took over a year and we all had to stay living together) I am struggling to cope with the situation with my Son - I really can't face another 4 years like the last 4. My son is depressed and struggling with his Dad (who was an abusive, judgemental and critical person) as well as his SEND needs. Like others on here I've got my ex putting huge pressure on (as my Son, by choice, lives with me full time and therefore Dad no longer involved on a day to day basis) and blaming me for it all (which is what he did with our daughter). My only hope is that I know that my daughter came through it so I hope he will too. I too count the days until School is over and I don't wake up with my first thought being 'will I be able to get my child to go to school today?'. Its good to know others are going through the same thing and that I am not alone, but worrying that there are so many of us. Big love to everyone on here.

@RhaenysRocks so sorry you're going through this, I feel much the same with DD..for her in year 10 I think it's increased academic pressure and friends growing up and maturing more than she could cope with. You're right that knowing others are having the same issues helps a bit, as it is so lonely.

Just heard from school, the medical provision they and the LA told me was the only provision they could offer is full, surprise surprise...I told them this in December. So could be a 3 month wait until a place is available, as the kids there do 12 week placements, no outreach until she has a place. Meeting with the LA next week, I've already told the senco that she needs to be aware I'm going to be pushing for other provision at that meeting as it's not good enough. I've given them the heads up as they need to push the LA as well.

I'm not even sure if putting all my effort into getting her something is worth it, I don't think she can engage still.

Does anyone keep questioning if they are doing the right thing? DD has days where she doesn't leave her bed, doesn't eat or eats crap, plays games all day, then like yesterday, happily came out with me to get smack D breakfast, came to a charity shop (stealth move on my part, it's part of a community garden and wellbeing centre) and wouldn't leave me alone all day, came to the supermarket, went to a music lesson, said she was going to my mum's to crochet and bake...days like this I think you could absolutely be doing some work, but even me telling her about online schools I've found and how low demand and brilliant they sound and asking her to just look at them, no response. Makes me question it all. But today, wouldn't get up, in bed, wouldn't go to my mum's.

I feel like I should just be telling her she needs to do something as she's clearly getting bored.

I spoke to 'the online school' and eureka learning yesterday, both seem really good, no pressure at all to do live lessons, both affordable, both had hangouts and after school clubs, both start at 11am so sound perfect. She's no interest though.

@Icantpeopleanymore I definitely do question if I am doing the right thing - constantly - but I've pretty much done 'everything' at this point - nagging, arguing, bribing, leaving them to it, empathy, understanding, shouting, talking EVERYTHING. When you are being kind and empathetic and understanding your berate yourself for not being tougher, and when are tougher it just usually makes things worse and you feell awful and stupid. One day at a time is the only way I can handle it, that and really leaning into the days when he does go in (reasonably) on time and giving myself a tiny pat on the back for that.

Thanks to those posters above. The s hool is being great actually..I teach there so his teachers are my colleagues which can be incredibly helpful but occasionally I wish it wasn't so as it means I can never get away from it. I can't "escape" to work because they ask me how he is etc. We've only got a couple of months left so I'm just trying to bumble along getting him in where I can. Definitely agree that you just try all the strategies and when none of them work, or work sporadically you question yourself.

Hi everyone. Sorry to read about all the struggles you’re going through.

Am feeling pretty hopeless at the moment. DD(11) didn’t go to school at all in y6 after a couple of days in September. I applied for and got an EHCP and she got a place in an ERP (enhanced resource provision unit in a mainstream secondary) for y7.
It’s very small, designed for highly anxious children with social communication difficulties (she has ASD), and they don’t have to go into the main school at all unless they want to. Sounds amazing right? Except she still won’t go😭
Ive been getting her there usually twice a week and she stays for between 5 and 45 minutes.
I had to give up work last year and am lonely, bored, miserable and depressed. Just don’t see any way out of this. I feel like I’ve tried everything!

Sorry for the moan. It’s nice to find other people who will get it

@miffmufferedmoof Have you requested an early review of the EHCP? On IPSEA’s website, there is a model letter you can use.

What support, including therapies, is in the EHCP?

Is alternative provision currently in place?

@miffmufferedmoof that sounds so hard, I think my DD would be the same, I keep looking into these lovely schools and just know that she'd never attend any of them. Year 10 so no hope left in me right now, it's only been 4 months she's been out but I just feel like this is it now.

Had a meeting with the LA today...DD has a meeting for pre admission to a medical needs school in the first week back after half term.... however, it's an in person meeting, she has to attend, if she doesn't, then no place. Ty his is the provision I told them wasn't suitable and wanted them to offer something at home first. They said no, apply to this first. 6 weeks ago I filled out the forms. No idea how long the waiting list is.

So the school set up for anxious kids who can't attend school for medical reasons that the LA told me is their policy that they will only use this and no other providers...bollocks has a barrier in place of meeting with three adults (me, the senco and a member of the school staff) in a meeting at a school she's never seen, and if she isn't able to do this, she can't have access to education.

Couldn't fucking write it. They are even saying they'll offer outreach if she gets a place but isn't able to attend, which could be a quick half hour meeting once a week, at a cafe, a walk, etc, on her terms... to gently get her back into education...but to get this offer which might work for her, possibly, she has to do something she can't! It's a requirement apparently.

I pushed the LA today, told them they are in breach of the law as it's been 3 months since I requested section 19 provision, told them that if she can't attend this meeting I will expect another meeting with them where they offer something suitable. They just sidestepped my questions.

I haven't told them I'll be sending a pre action protocol letter or taking it further as quite frankly I cannot afford it and the way things are going I will be fighting the EHCP to get EOTAS anyway so need to save my energy and possibly money for that.

My biggest worry is that they name a school, she can't attend, then I find myself in a worse situation we here the new school starts to fine me for her not attending... currently her school have been very understanding if a little useless, so no fines. Has anyone had this situation? Would I ask for an emergency review in that case? Which again, could take months?

I just feel so completely stuck. Draft due this week... nothing yet. Work is manic and DD is back to not moving from bed.

On top of all that ExDH started the divorce, due to have decree nisi in 4 weeks, so he can move in with his girlfriend and hour and a half away and have loads more money but less time with the kids but he hasn't even sent me the financial information yet so I can't even see a solicitor about that and sort the consent order..so that on top of everything else is just about sending me round the bend.

Stop the world, I want to get off.