Replacing direct contact with our young grandson with….any ideas appreciated.

[ArlaRae]

Our ex daughter in law has asked that we no longer contact our young grandson.

We usually send Christmas & birthday presents/cards. We also, as part of a family Christmas tradition send a Christmas/birthday book. If we are on holiday we send postcards. We sometimes send letters.

There isn't a way that we can continue. DiL is not going to pass anything on.

Anyone any ideas to ‘mark’ occasions.
I am concerned that for our grandson contact has stopped suddenly. I wonder what he thinks has happened?

What about when he is a young adult, will he look back and think we abandoned him? Is there anything we can do to assure him that we love him and missed him.

I find this perspective odd that it's confusing for the dc to have light contact?

I saw both grandparents at least once a year possibly twice, sitting on their own sofas whilst my dm chatted away.
I received bday cards and a tenner and I appreciated that and knew who they were.
I didn't have sleepovers, special outings or anything that gp seem to expect today and I was absolutely fine and not confused at all.

It's a shame she won't let you send cards at least but maybe she is scared you will push for more if she opens that door a teeny bit.
We are v v low contact with in laws and sometimes I have thought.. I would like to ask you them to do x with dc but then I recoil because that wouldn't be enough. Fil like a steam roller would seize the opportunity to push and push for more... So we don't go there.

I agree with others... Do cards and save money for the child...as we know money is the key thing for life, perhaps even a sipp?

What have we done wrong?

Overbearing for loving our grandson, overbearing for wanting the best for him?

It really feels like some really important information is missing here. To go from travelling 90 minutes to meet you half way, to nothing? And doing that travel yet frustrating contact with his dad? Honestly, it feels like you’re being quite guarded when write about what’s gone on between them.

It also sounds like he went from 0-60 in terms of almost having PR then the courts saying, “nah mate - she’s alienated him, so there’s no point.” The courts sometimes force children who are older and actually quite able to verbalise that they don’t want contact, to nonetheless have contact.

It feels like there’s something you won’t share here - or don’t know.

As for this:
”We have one open Facebook post, sharing a time when we did see our DGS. We will repost this every year on his birthday, so that in time DGS will be able to see these” - this is all a bit “woe poor us 😢” and I really wouldn’t take this approach. It feels off to me. A reproach of his mother. Now even if she deserves reproach, remember this is his mother. The way in to build a relationship with him in, say, 10 years is, “we’re so happy to see you again!” not an implied, “we’ve cried and put sad Facebook posts up every birthday because your nasty mother kept you from us.” There’s a touch of the drama about sharing his birthday photo.

“I would really like to do more ‘in his name’, ( without making a big deal) something useful. DS has contact with DGS school.
How would it be perceived if we were to buy something for the school twice a year - birthday and Christmas, something that can be used by other children now?
Or perhaps a donation/gift to a charity? Details could be included in the information the solicitor holds.”

Forgive for not articulating this well, because I’m actually finding it hard to put my finger on my discomfort.

It’s similar to my previous post about a birthday Facebook post - it just has an off feel about it.

If you wanted to donate to his school as an unknown to him but known to you direct connection to him… I’d get that. But here you are, wanting to add it to the family solicitor’s information pack? It’s odd. It has something of the feel of an odd Victorian benefactor about it - that playground climbing frame came from your real grandparents <dramatic plot reveal>

Why do you want to make a show to him of this gift “in his name”? Odd.

All you need is something to show that you genuinely thought of him through the years, and a card and a premium bond will do that perfectly well.

Donate to the school if you want to - but don’t log it for him with your solicitor!

You say you didn’t want to get involved to mediate disagreements between your son and DIL. Which again, sounds like there was good reason for disagreement that you’re not sharing.

I don’t think the donation to school is a good idea OP. I’d just save the money for GS.

@Testina ops son can be a shit partner but that doesn't mean that she can with hold contact. I wonder if there differences was on parenting styles or he cheated whatever the reason there is no justification to use the child. Women like that are spiteful and hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

The op is low contact with her son over finances that's bizarre seeing as she wants to be in her grandchildren's lives I wonder if she sees his new child.

As for this:
”We have one open Facebook post, sharing a time when we did see our DGS. We will repost this every year on his birthday, so that in time DGS will be able to see these” - this is all a bit “woe poor us 😢” and I really wouldn’t take this approach. It feels off to me. A reproach of his mother. Now even if she deserves reproach, remember this is his mother. The way in to build a relationship with him in, say, 10 years is, “we’re so happy to see you again!” not an implied, “we’ve cried and put sad Facebook posts up every birthday because your nasty mother kept you from us.” There’s a touch of the drama about sharing his birthday photo.

I strongly agree with this. When I read OP's posts about it, it feels a sort of emotionally manipulative thing to do but I couldn't quite articulate why. It's essentially a plan to pre emotively paint her and her partner as victims and undermine the child's mum, annually and publicly.

The thing is, she doesn’t sound like a furious woman scorned. She regularly travelled half of the 3 hour journey to take the child to see OP. There should have been no need for that, because OP could have seen her grandson on his father’s contact time. Except… how would that even fit with “very low contact” that OP has with her son?

And at the same time as making some considerable effort for a grandmother she’s not related to, she’s frustrating contract with the father. That just doesn’t paint her as a furious woman scorned.

OP says, “Our DS should have planned his life better after his marriage break up.”

It’s a very guarded sentence - and its lack of information suggests some issues here. She also said her son had MH issues - which could be everything or nothing.

If OP has chosen to be “very low contact” with her own child, who are we to say that his own child shouldn’t be very low (or even no) contact with him too?

I posted before… courts force contact on articulate older children who say they don’t want it. I find it unlikely that the court said no contact - and remember he hasn’t fought that. Couldn’t afford to… but could afford a new wedding a child. I would believe it if OP had said court did order contact, but she continued to frustrate it. I find it really unusual that the court decided to let her “get away with” parental alienation. Which OP only said the court “considered”.

Look, none of this fits.

Despite this being an anonymous forum, OP has not even be prepared to explain why she will barely see this man. She won’t… a grown adult. So should a child?

Not explaining that decision 10 pages in just leads me to suspect her own reason not to see him is relevant. Perhaps he’s unreliable, sometimes steals, is selfish and incapable of putting someone else first, and self medicates his MH issues with continuous weed smoking. Who knows?

I do think it’s really sad that the mother wants to cut off even distant occasional contact. But I really do not think OP is sharing everything here, because it just doesn’t all fit together with the mother’s previous efforts, the father’s lack of fighting for contact, the OP’s very low contact with him herself.

What reason can an OP have for holding back information, than that they know the information doesn’t support their cause?

I don’t doubt there are furious scorned women who use their children as weaponed. But that’s not what I’m getting from this.

Also I forgot to say as I don't feel having light contact with op won't be confusing, it will just be what the child is used too having no contact certainly at the moment also won't be confusing.
Dc get very busy with social lives and lots going on even when dc do see gp it can get awkward with dc going off and doing their own thing.

Op, he won't be thank you for play ground equipment at all. But he certainly will thank you for money later on...

You can’t buy love.

Just because you give someone money, doesn’t mean they’ll know you loved them.

This is real narcissistic thinking.

This thread makes lots of assumptions. I will try and clarify.

MH issues on both sides - DS and DiL.

Earlier in the thread there was some good advice about long term contact and using a solicitor. I am following it. We want DGS to know we care. We want him to have the option, when he is older to be able to contact us. We are taking the only options we have right now.

The FB post, opens contact. Again suggested by others. The post was shared when we did have contact, DiL had no issues with it, seeing it when she was one of my FB friends.

Court did order contact, she did not turn up, repeatedly. She missed court dates as she was ill, DGS missed CAFCASS appointments as he was ill.
That was when RP was nearly awarded to DS. She managed to spin out the time since DGS last saw his DF and then claimed that it is too long since DGS saw his DF and that seeing him now would not be in the child’s favour.

Any donation to the school, if decided on, wouldn't have our DGS name on it. By saying, ‘in his name’, just to show him, as an adult, that we cared - but also to do something worthwhile now, when we can't be of any worth to our DGS. Only the school would know about the donation, nothing massive, just regular in celebrating key times. I would if course be seeking the view of the headteacher as we know we can't do this without agreement.

Low contact with DS - financial ( in his marriage he/they borrowed a significant amount of money ( think £20,000 plus) which has not been returned nor has any agreement been made to pay any of it back). There needs to be some accountability. Family home now sold at a significant profit, for instance but DS walked away from his share.

As explained earlier he also chose to move on quickly when he should have waited and put contact arrangements in place to see his DS. His choices gave DiL more concerns about stability, new sibling, more change. He didn't like that we had advised that he sorted his life differently.( Saying that - he is a great dad to his new child.)

We will save for him and make sure the family solicitor is aware. Any contact also referenced in our will.

I accept we have no control. DiL has the right to make her decisions, but we also have opportunities to show we cared.

If he’s a “great” dad to his new child then he can be a great dad to his older child. This is what you need to encourage.

Sounds like just another shitty bloke that has got “new shiny family” syndrome.

Your contact should be through him.

I don't think you have read back. He has had contact frustrated. He made stupid decisions early on - about a new relationship - I've already said we advised him otherwise - how does he put contact in place now.

He drives 3 hours each way to parents evening - the only bit of his DS’s life he is part of.

Maybe it shows the GS that they were thinking of them.
If they don't see him and pass away he will be left something as part of their estate anyway possibly.
When you are asked to step back it is a way of still putting that Xmas money birthday etc away it's really quite common. Better than harassing the mother.

"He had contact frustrated" is such a bullshit line.

I have never met a man who has had "contact frustrated" with his car (I.e. had it stolen/clamped/removed) and hasn't managed to sort that problem out.

Yet so many dads claim that they are unable to see their kids.

It sounds like your son moved 3 hours drive away from the family home, so he clearly wasn't planning on doing any school runs and making packed lunches was he?

If he'd wanted 50/50 contact he could have gone to the courts to get it and lived near his child and helped raise them. You could have spent the money you want to give to your GC on helping him achieve this and then seen your GC every time your son had contact.

Instead, Dad moved away offering no help to the daily life of raising his child, knocked up another woman, focused on raising that second child and from the sounds of it isn't interested in facilitating a relationship between you and either of his kids.

None of this is your ex-DILs problem.

*I don't think you have read back. He has had contact frustrated. He made stupid decisions early on - about a new relationship - I've already said we advised him otherwise - how does he put contact in place now.

He drives 3 hours each way to parents evening - the only bit of his DS’s life he is part of.*

And this is why I have said we’re really not getting the full story.
Apologies if I’m wrong, but I don’t think you mentioned before that your son has also chosen to move 3 HOURS away from him child.
Not sure you have to do much “frustrating contact” if dad has picked up and left 🤷🏻‍♀️

It would still be lovely if your XDIL could say, “you are not your son, I’d love you to still see grandson”. But… I still think there’s plenty you’re not sharing.

How does he put contact in place now?
Are you joking?!
For someone who has a “family solicitor” and plans to formally log all your charitable acts, do you not think that’s the obvious starting point? Advice from a solicitor - and that advice should be to start with mediation. He knows that - but he hasn’t done it.

I would be very very careful claiming the mother 'managed to spin out the time'. The courts are not stupid, they're not easily fooled. They see tricks and games all the time and manage well enough to see through it. If there was ever a possibility your son would get permanent residency, he would already have it. You either have it or you don't.

I was a child who had no contact with my fathers family, mostly due to a very possessive and controlling step father. But my mother also plays a role in this of course. Very lengthy court battles for a very long time. Lots of assessments on a small child from social workers assessing if I was being alienated by my mother. My father was allowed to send me letters twice a year. I never had any contact with the family until I was in my 30's and decided for myself to get in touch with my father. It took me a very long time to decide if this is what I wanted for myself and my own family. I haven't yet had much contact with any other family members, though both grandparents are now dead. This is my own choice. I don't feel the need to add that into my life yet. I don't feel they didn't love me, I don't really feel I missed out on them. It was my decision, I wasn't bought with money or treats or presents. I would not have wanted that as it doesn't feel genuine. And do not get a solicitor involved for god sake! Your grandson is a person, he is not a possession to fight over. It feels quite manipulative to involve his school in this too. I think you need to let this lie and when, or even if, your grandson seeks you out in the future you can then tell him how much you love him. You need to be prepared for him to still not want a relationship with you when he's older just because you've given him some money etc.

@Testina
Apologies if I’m wrong, but I don’t think you mentioned before that your son has also chosen to move 3 HOURS away from him child.
Not sure you have to do much “frustrating contact” if dad has picked up and left 🤷🏻‍♀️

I didn't, you did. DiL sold up and moved to be with her new partner. Frustrated contact perhaps…

I'm not in favour of my DS’s behaviour either, as stated many times on here.

This thread isn't about him thiugh. It is about putting a child first. About letting a child know we love him, about a child knowing that his family didn't choose to have no contact with him, despite this being in place.

We are in very dangerous territory if we only believe that the male is always 100% at fault and the female never. Bruises, scratches and emotional abuse on DS by his DW are evidence of this during their marriage. Worried neighbours calling the police…to her…also evidence.

This was a marriage where both parties made stupid choices. They should never have been together.

Very dangerous and seriously wrong to always blame only the male.

@NeonSoda Not narcissistic at all. I’m assuming the grandson may only get it it once the grandparents have passed away. He may not love them at all for it, but he could no doubt use the money and they may have made his life a bit better.

You did post about this previously. Far too many similarities not to be. You keep mentioning ds goes to parents evening. If on a child's birth certificate this is one of the automatic rights of the parent. It doesn't make him look good as you are trying to paint him to be for this reason. He isn't even allowed contact with the child. Respect the wishes of the mother and give them some privacy as they have requested. Remember dgs privately and ask for this and the other thread to be taken down. You couldn't guarantee child's privacy if in contact so what do you expect any stranger to do to help.

“We are in very dangerous territory if we only believe that the male is always 100% at fault and the female never. Bruises, scratches and emotional abuse on DS by his DW are evidence of this during their marriage. Worried neighbours calling the police…to her…also evidence.”

Why did you reply to a poster earlier that there had been no DA?

He's married to his new woman who he has a child with. Op said they have both remarried and have created more children.

“I didn't, you did. DiL sold up and moved to be with her new partner. Frustrated contact perhaps…”

Why do you insist in talking in riddles?

I apologise for assuming it was your son that moved - it was the way you wrote earlier you were 3 hours away, rather than saying that she’d moved.

But honestly, all your posts feel like obfuscation.

Why do insist on “frustrated contract perhaps” instead of just saying what has happened?

Moving away is as simple as frustrating contract. Sometimes one parent moves because they need family support or can’t afford to live in the old location as a single parent. FWIW, I think it’s pretty shit and you should do everything possible to keep both parents in the daily lives of their kids. But… it happens, and sometimes the NRP is useless or even bad, and actually it’s not the worst decision.

The problem is, you avoid questions, don’t speak in a straight manner, and outright change your story (the DA).

No-one is blaming a man just because they’re a man.

All we’re doing is piecing together the information you’re giving about a specific man - which is that he stopped bothering for contact, and you yourself don’t even want more than very low contact with him.

Op switch off they only want gossip that's all. This is a female majority forum so the advice will be bias and there will be a lot of projection because of their own experiences with men. You have some good advice I would take it and thank you for sharing your story I know it's difficult because the more you give the more issues the find in what you post. They're not here to give you advice there purpose is to give you a headache.

Nobody is being nosey. Just frustrating as she had a previous thread about this maybe you should read ? Also keeps changing the story. Frustrating for sure.