Anyone Watching Starmer?

[KnowsWhatAGiraffeIs]

What do we think?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67871404
I'm actually more impressed than I expected to be. Starting to think they might be in with a chance.

Yes, controversial but I actually quite like him, he seems steady & sensible and that's what we need.

I really don't like a couple of Labour's policies but watching Starmer today, I think overall he's actually a much stronger candidate than I've given him credit for and that he'll do a decent job if he gets in. Really surprised actually. 😅

I was particularly struck by what he's said about how the Conservatives are sowing the seeds of division intentionally to keep us all arguing and to stop us moving forward, it seemed especially pertinent to identity politics and migration. I also like that he's grabbed the bull by the horns with the expenses scandal and acknowledged it was Labour as well as Conservatives and that he prosecuted both. It was one of my big issues with Labour that they kept ignoring that it happened.
If someone had asked me last week I would have laughed at the idea of Labour being electable. Really changing my mind now.

Trans rights on now!

He has made a clear statement that women's spaces will be protected under a Labour government. Holy fuck. He has got off the fence.

Did he say how he defines "woman"? Because we've been there already with Labour in the last election. They promised to protect "women's" spaces but it turned out that their definition of "woman" is a flexible one that includes males.

No but it was a direct question specifically in the context of trans rights to access women's spaces. I'll have to wait for the replay to type it out verbatim. He didn't define woman specifically though so I agree there is the potential for some backtracking later.

He has made a clear statement that women's spaces will be protected under a Labour government. Holy fuck. He has got off the fence.

He has only switched now as enough people have spoken out. He isn't a strong enough leader for me to vote for him.

Actually I'd rather vote for someone who looks around them and sees what is happening and changes their opinion and course of action (action being the key thing) than someone who just marches in blindly, rattling off concrete-sounding policies like a klaxon, and refuses to be turned even when there's evidence before their eyes that they are doing the wrong thing.

I would quite like them to state, describe or explain what a woman is, though.

than someone who just marches in blindly, rattling off concrete-sounding policies like a klaxon, and refuses to be turned even when there's evidence before their eyes that they are doing the wrong thing

But this is exactly what he did.

All the evidence was there. Before his eyes. He ignored it.

He only changed tack because his advisors made it clear to him that if he didn’t shift, he’d go I to an election campaign being asked ‘what is a woman’ at every turn.

He’s still leaving Rosie Duffield and Tonia Antoniazzi out to dry

I’m pleased with the shift, but don’t trust him and his watering down of what is needed to get a GRA will continue to progress the erosion of women’s rights.

Why surprised? It’s obvious from his career he’s a hard working, competent and principled man. Yes, politics sometimes means doing things pragmatically that you don’t much like, but generally I can’t see why this is a surprise to anyone…

He thinks that men who dress up ARE women. Always look beyond the small print.

Yes this.

Yes when he treats those two principled women with respect and listens to what they have to say then maybe I will consider him as a potential PM. But he will never do this as they are guilty of defending the rights of (real) women and we cannot possibly have that.

I’m pretty gender critical but I do worry that voting on that single issue will leave us with a Tory government again, which would be disastrous in many more ways for women, and wider society. I like Starmer, he comes across as principled and straightforward which is what we need agree years of smoke and mirrors.

I agree that another Tory govt would be dreadful but I will not vote Labour. Hoping we have a good Indie candidate standing.

His biggest problem is going to be women.
We are very stubborn and want to know if he thinks TWAW.
Come on Keir it’s a simple question.
Tell us.
Now.

Voting for an indie candidate, good or otherwise, won’t help us not have a Tory government. Voting for whoever will get or keep a Tory out in your constituency will.

I’m completely confused as to how this has become a ‘not voting Labour’ issue. Tories don’t think any differently - or if they do they don’t act on that. And their other policies have a tendency to disadvantage women. And how many have been accused/convicted of crimes against women? And what about Cleverly’s comments? Anyone saying they won’t vote Labour over this is a shy Tory trying to hide their real views as far as I can see.

I agree - Labour will not be getting my vote so I'm very keen to see the rest of the candidates in my constituency

In effect my vote counts for nothing as I am in a very, very safe Tory seat. But thanks for the lecture.

If I wanted to vote Tory I would stand up and say so and if I had a decent Tory MP who had been outspoken about the rights of women and girls then I WOULD vote for them.

And I would vote Labour if Rosie Duffield was my MP - again because she stands up for the rights of women and girls.

Lecture? It’s two sentences of advice. Try voting for the person who is most likely to dent the Tory vote - there aren’t that many totally safe seats this time. Not a lecture either, incidentally.