Anyone Watching Starmer?

[KnowsWhatAGiraffeIs]

What do we think?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67871404
I'm actually more impressed than I expected to be. Starting to think they might be in with a chance.

Wait for the manifesto maybe?
He did say single sex spaces would be retained today. And p, yes, I appreciate that he didn’t define sex when he did it.

Pro Labour are equally as prepared to throw women under the bus as the PLP!

its shocking really that they don’t see that Labour could do better!

Single sex includes males with a GRC

So mixed biological sex

I’ve explicitly said I don’t agree with him in everything.
Recent comments are better. Yes, they could still do better.
Women and girls are definitely safer with them than the sex offending, rohypnol joking Tories though. I reckon Tories throw women under buses far more often.

Does it?
Are you assuming things?

You said don't vote Tory. I'm not. I'm also not voting Labour, LD or Green.

You lot really need to get that this is a deal breaker for us. And banging on isn't going to make us change our minds.

You’ll have to point out where Starmer has said how he’ll exclude males who are legally recognised as female

The only way is to update the EqA as in progress by Kemi Badenoch. Labour have said they’ll defend the act and oppose it

I doubt that ardent Labour voters truly understand that.

Perhaps if they did they would understand how fundamentally undemocratic it is to expect women to vote for Labour under the circumstances?

Starmer, being a lawyer, does understand this yet continues to avoid the subject and continues to be under the thumb of TRA lobbyists. He’s such a disappointment.

Yes it does. Perhaps some research is in order. Single sex includes males with a GRC. So mixed sex.

I’m not sure that’s true. The EqA allows exemptions.
My point really is that the Tories won’t sort this. Badenoch doesn't (and probably won’t) have any power. And other things are important too.

That is fair enough. My deal breakers are a bit wider- the treatment of the disabled, the poor and the vulnerable and the survival of the NHS.

Oh yes. Survival of the NHS, which is, in part, financially crippled by PFI. Which Labour were very enthusiastic about. Good plan, that one!

That's not his biggest problem by a long way. There really just aren't that many people for whom that's a decisive vote-changing issue.

Why do you keep taking about what the Tories will do?

You are asking me to vote Labour. This thread is about Labour.

I have always voted Labour so it entirely reasonable for me to ask what Labour will do.

Badenoch has more power than any Labour MP that is committed to women’s sex based rights. Duffield only just got out of her witch hunt. You’ll get zero challenge to gender ideology. Obviously you may be keen on that.

The current set up with the EqA still allows males in female spaces, that will continue unless the definition is biological sex.

The NHS was in fairly good shape in 2010, before Lansley got his hands on it and spaffed billions on a pointless and damaging reform.

Again, I’ve asked nobody to vote Labour. I’ve asked them tote to get/keep a Tory out in their constituency. In that context, what the Tories do is a bit key. Plus the obvious, that the government will be Tory or Labour. With FOTp those are your choices. I don’t make the rules.

Why are you asking people to vote for what you want?

You do know everyone gets to decide with the one vote they have

OK. Vote for, or to enable, Tories. It’s a democracy. If that’s what you want, fine. But think about the consequences for women, girls and others disadvantaged by Tory policies instead of just one issue maybe.

So when considering who to vote for on who to get the Tories out we should ignore the fact that Labour wants to make it easier for males to gain access to women’s single sex spaces & sports & doesn’t like members or MPs to even ask questions about this issue?

I’m assuming that sensible people, especially those who purport to be interested in equality and the welfare of women and girls, won’t want Tories back in.
If you do, that’s fine. It’s a democracy.

No. But you should weigh that against the law breaking, sex offending, rohypnol joking, corruption of the current Tories.

Well let the pp decide for themselves

I assume you feel you can decide without being badgered in the same way

Sometimes it is better to play the long game. Allow the Tories to get in again, and things will be crap for most ordinary people and seriously crap for the most vulnerable.

If Labour gets in there is a good chance we will also eventually get PR, which will mean much a much fairer voting system for all of us. Votes for independents and smaller parties will then mean something.

It’s not though really if you have only the option of the nasty right wing Tories or a party who doesn’t like women to ask questions about why 0.1 % of women now have penises (according to Keir Starmer)

Neither option is terribly palatable or democratic.

I’m so disappointed in the Labour Party, voting Labour ought to be a no brainier. It’s not the fault of the Tories that Labour is failing to stand up for women