Anyone Watching Starmer?

[KnowsWhatAGiraffeIs]

What do we think?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67871404
I'm actually more impressed than I expected to be. Starting to think they might be in with a chance.

You don't think the speech today was about introducing the Labour manifesto as it currently stands? Interesting.

It’s a democracy. Of course you have a responsibility. It only works if everyone looks into it, makes a decision and votes.

Really?

Did he clarify how a male with a GRC would not have access to single sex spaces?

Because with a GRC they are legally female

How did he clear that up?

He is human. If he’s reading from a script he wrote it. He does understand t( consequences. I don’t agree with him on everything by a long chalk, but his personality or otherwise is completely irrelevant. It’s not reality tv.

I have looked at it and decided who I'm not voting for. As is my right in a democracy.

A democracy doesn't involve making a choice on the basis of being harangued for 'wrong think' in relation to choosing a different box to stick my X in than some random person on the internet thinks is correct.

No. Because it’s not published, and probably not fully written either. It was about presenting Labour’s basic position and direction of travel, not the election manifesto. You’ll have to wait until an election is announced for that. Shouldn’t be long though. My money is on May.

Nobody has harangued you, or suggested anything like ‘wrongthink’. But ok.

Sunak ruled out May today apparently.

If the manifesto reads well, I shall vote for them. If it can be interpreted a number of ways / isn't clear what 'single sex' means, then I won't.

No need - I will be voting for an independent in the next GE. In the future and under another leader, I would be quite happy to reconsider

Does anyone have a catch up link to this? I clicked the link in the OP but it wouldn't open.

Try this: https://www.youtube.com/live/WPllBEs0_1o?si=a9BsDCIF3LIXR_3F

Is that likely to get or keep a Tory out in your constituency.
Because if not, it’s really short sighted. Unless you’re a Tory, obvs.

Believe it or not, there are perfectly reasonable and pleasant right wing people in the world who will vote Tory in October. Being right wing is not a crime any more than being left wing is a crime.

You are quite vitriolic towards posters who you deem to not be planning to vote the 'right' way as they are disillusioned with Labour. You assume that they are somehow less intelligent than you and manipulated by the 'right wing' media in a way that you, of course, are not.

I see a similar attitude amongst Left wing commentators such as Owen Jones and James O'Brien and the mixture of thinly veiled insults and superiority is hugely off putting.

I disagree. ‘Perfectly reasonable and pleasant’ right wing people would also want this lot out. They are corrupt, law breaking and morally vacant. As well as incompetent.
I haven’t suggested I’m more intelligent than the average I don’t think. Doesn’t everyone know British media is mostly right wing?
I haven’t told anyone to vote Labour. I’ve said it seems wise to vote in a way which gets or keeps one of this brand of Tories out.
You’ve made it clear that whatever Starmer is like as a leader, or whatever his policies, you wouldn’t vote !about in this post though. Which is fine. It’s a democracy. I just find supporting these Tories morally reprehensible b

I have said upthread that if my MP was Rosie Duffield, for example, that I WOULD vote Labour. I vote for an MP not a government personally but am aware that some people will vote for anyone if they are wearing what they deem to be the right colour rosette.

Not voting Labour, or any other party which may beat the Tories in your constituency, does not equal supporting the Tories. The only thing which equates to supporting the Tories is voting for them.

If a political party has a policy / policies which you absolutely cannot support, then there is no obligation to vote for them, regardless as to whether they're the best bet for ousting the Tories.

"It's a democracy . . . but you'd better vote the way I say."

In an ideal world, maybe.
We have FPTP, so I’m afraid that’s exactly what it means in practice.

You are quite vitriolic towards posters who you deem to not be planning to vote the 'right' way as they are disillusioned with Labour. You assume that they are somehow less intelligent than you and manipulated by the 'right wing' media in a way that you, of course, are not.

I genuinely think you’re misinterpreting the mood. A lot of people focussed on getting the Tories out are that way because the consequences of the current government have been personally irrevocably harmful to them in some way. As things stand the realistic option is Labour if someone wants to see the Tories are ousted. It’s genuine despair and frustration you’re reading as attempts to, I don’t know , show you up maybe?

personally I would like to see Labour win the next GE and another party or two fill the void left on the opposition benches (I’d also like to see proportional representation). Really shake up the wider system because like it or not we have a two party playing field but this may be a chance for smaller parties to gain some real traction if a Tory stronghold can be broken.

Either way, the Tories need a number of years to regroup and build a party worth considering as competent leaders of the country.

That's not the fault of the voter.

I want to vote Labour. But I can't. Women's rights are too important to me and, once we allow Labour to burn them on the bonfire, god knows when / if we'll get them back. I owe it to my daughter not to support a party who doesn't give a shit about safeguarding, and lets any bloke who fancies it into previously single sex spaces.

Sorry that isn't important to you. It bloody well is to me.

Labour is going to win the next election regardless of how some of us vote in relation to women's rights. I would personally prefer it if their majority were not as humungous as is being predicted, because I don't think that kind of unprecedented majority will be good for democracy either.

What’s fault got to do with it?
You have to work with what you’ve got.
I have zero idea how this has become a ‘don’t-vote-Labour’ issue. Tories are exactly the same on it and on every other issue are worse for women. It’s definitely coming across as a way for shy Tories to support them and still seem ‘right on’.

There are many, many decent Tory voters who are aghast at what their party has become.

The only people who will vote for the Tory party in its current form are those who fall for its bigoted, divisive, dog whistle politics.

Here we go again re 'shy Tories'. Give it a bloody rest. Have you not seen how many left-leaning women are struggling with this issue and feeling politically homeless?

And as for not understanding how it's affecting votes...well, it just goes to show that you really don't understand the monumental impact of what happens when our rights have gone.

Good on you. Same. It’ll be a bin fire but we can stick at it with others who care.