Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Anyone Watching Starmer?

212 replies

KnowsWhatAGiraffeIs · 04/01/2024 10:26

What do we think?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67871404
I'm actually more impressed than I expected to be. Starting to think they might be in with a chance.

Sir Keir Starmer: UK faces a year of choice, Starmer says in key speech - BBC News

The Labour leader's speech in Bristol comes at the start of a year that's almost certain to have a general election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67871404

OP posts:
NoWordForFluffy · 04/01/2024 21:35

cardibach · 04/01/2024 21:30

I’m assuming that sensible people, especially those who purport to be interested in equality and the welfare of women and girls, won’t want Tories back in.
If you do, that’s fine. It’s a democracy.

Show quote history

I want Labour to come to its senses pre-election, so I can vote for them.

Have you thought about badgering the people who can do what's needed so we can vote for them? I mean, revolutionary idea, eh?

Badgering us isn't going to help. Why not put your energy into getting Labour to be electable to us as well as you?

cardibach · 04/01/2024 21:38

I’m not badgering anyone @EasternStandard
I’m giving my opinion, as are others. Are they badgering me?
Anyway - my view. Labour aren’t perfect. I’d like to see more clarity on sex v gender. But they will, in my belief, be infinitely better for all disadvantaged groups (including women and girls) than the Tories. They will also not be corrupt and law breaking. They may manage to halt the otherwise inexorable slide into decline of this country. As such, I think they are a much better prospect than the Tories. Starmer is a much better prospect than Sunak or anyone else the Tories might choose. The Labour front bench is much, much better than the Tory one. And don’t kid yourself - the choice is Labour or Tory. Make your decision and vote accordingly - for, or to enable, one or the other.
And this is going to be my last comment here.

rockstarshoes · 04/01/2024 21:38

I'll be voting for whoever can get the Tories out!

I do care very much about women's sex based rights!

But I also care about Asylum seekers rights, I don't want us to pull out of the ECHR, workers rights, the right to protest, the right not to have bloody sewerage pumped in to the sea & all the other things that will be under threat if they get in again!

EasternStandard · 04/01/2024 21:47

cardibach · 04/01/2024 21:38

I’m not badgering anyone @EasternStandard
I’m giving my opinion, as are others. Are they badgering me?
Anyway - my view. Labour aren’t perfect. I’d like to see more clarity on sex v gender. But they will, in my belief, be infinitely better for all disadvantaged groups (including women and girls) than the Tories. They will also not be corrupt and law breaking. They may manage to halt the otherwise inexorable slide into decline of this country. As such, I think they are a much better prospect than the Tories. Starmer is a much better prospect than Sunak or anyone else the Tories might choose. The Labour front bench is much, much better than the Tory one. And don’t kid yourself - the choice is Labour or Tory. Make your decision and vote accordingly - for, or to enable, one or the other.
And this is going to be my last comment here.

Well yes it’s how you are coming across. No one has responded that you must vote for a specific party in the same way.

rockstarshoes · 04/01/2024 21:52

I don't have a share token for this but Shelagh Fogarty was talking about it this afternoon on LBC.

His ideas for overhauling the Education System are quite inspiring!

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/keir-starmers-caution-conceals-a-radical-plan-qdqf2vmtm

lifeturnsonadime · 04/01/2024 21:52

NoWordForFluffy · 04/01/2024 21:35

I want Labour to come to its senses pre-election, so I can vote for them.

Have you thought about badgering the people who can do what's needed so we can vote for them? I mean, revolutionary idea, eh?

Badgering us isn't going to help. Why not put your energy into getting Labour to be electable to us as well as you?

Show quote history

It’s the left wing way. If you don’t vote for them you must be a vile Tory is just so much easier than recognising that Labour is making it unnecessarily hard for women to vote for them.

I really resent this. Women’s rights should not be a price worth paying to oust the Tories.

keylemon · 04/01/2024 22:06

@IClaudine people would vote Tory for many different reasons. Stop vilifying people who votes differently to you.

ChristmasinBurrRidge · 04/01/2024 22:40

cardibach · 04/01/2024 21:11

I have never said vote for them.
I’ve said vote for whoever can get/keep a Tory out in your constituency.
Which is the only logical course of action given the last 13 years.

Show quote history

Nonsense. That might mean ignoring an excellent local independent candidate who could make a real difference in their constituency if elected. It's Starmer's job to make the Labour party attractive enough to win votes.

IClaudine · 04/01/2024 22:48

keylemon · 04/01/2024 22:06

@IClaudine people would vote Tory for many different reasons. Stop vilifying people who votes differently to you.

Read again what I wrote @keylemon. I said:

There are many, many decent Tory voters who are aghast at what their party has become.

The only people who will vote for the Tory party in its current form are those who fall for its bigoted, divisive, dog whistle politics.

I am not vilifying Tory voters in general. I am vilifying anyone who will vote for the Tory party in 2024. There are plenty of Tories who feel the same way. If there weren't, the Tories would not be looking at a colossal defeat.

43ontherocksporfavor · 04/01/2024 22:51

He has my vote. I think he is a decent human being unlike the Tory slime balls.

cardibach · 04/01/2024 23:12

ChristmasinBurrRidge · 04/01/2024 22:40

Nonsense. That might mean ignoring an excellent local independent candidate who could make a real difference in their constituency if elected. It's Starmer's job to make the Labour party attractive enough to win votes.

Show quote history

I’ll reply to you even though I said in was out because you’ve not been part of the earlier argument.
You’ve missed my point. If the excellent independent can get the Tory out, vote for him/her. If he/she can’t, then he /she can’t do anything for the constituency anyway.

ChristmasinBurrRidge · 04/01/2024 23:23

cardibach · 04/01/2024 23:12

I’ll reply to you even though I said in was out because you’ve not been part of the earlier argument.
You’ve missed my point. If the excellent independent can get the Tory out, vote for him/her. If he/she can’t, then he /she can’t do anything for the constituency anyway.

Show quote history

I will vote for the candidate that best aligns with my values. Quite frankly, I don't give a damn about 'getting the Tory out'.

EffieeBriest · 05/01/2024 00:43

As much as I care about sex based women’s rights I’m more concerned about the state of the economy, the lack of opportunities for young people up here, the sorry state of my own town, the abysmal state of the NHS, education, criminal justice system, the emergence of politicians who are quite happy to blithely lie, shitshow Brexit, COL crisis, climate change. I’m not sure I want trans women in the next cubicle but tbh that’s way down the list. I kind of think if it is the most important concern for you, well you’ve not much to worry about.

NoWordForFluffy · 05/01/2024 07:59

I’m not sure I want trans women in the next cubicle but tbh that’s way down the list.

If you honestly think that this is the only problem (and even if it was, which it's not, it's a MASSIVE problem for some religions and women who've suffered trauma etc) with women losing their rights, you've not been paying attention. Which is fine, you don't have to. But don't then try to tell those of us who can see how serious it is that we're prioritising something trivial.

EasternStandard · 05/01/2024 08:01

EffieeBriest · 05/01/2024 00:43

As much as I care about sex based women’s rights I’m more concerned about the state of the economy, the lack of opportunities for young people up here, the sorry state of my own town, the abysmal state of the NHS, education, criminal justice system, the emergence of politicians who are quite happy to blithely lie, shitshow Brexit, COL crisis, climate change. I’m not sure I want trans women in the next cubicle but tbh that’s way down the list. I kind of think if it is the most important concern for you, well you’ve not much to worry about.

As much as I care about sex based women’s rights

and

I’m not sure I want trans women in the next cubicle

don’t really go together. Generally the second is said by someone who doesn’t give much thought to women’s sex based rights.

and that’s assuming Labour can fix the other things listed

Angrycat2768 · 05/01/2024 08:48

NoWordForFluffy · 05/01/2024 07:59

I’m not sure I want trans women in the next cubicle but tbh that’s way down the list.

If you honestly think that this is the only problem (and even if it was, which it's not, it's a MASSIVE problem for some religions and women who've suffered trauma etc) with women losing their rights, you've not been paying attention. Which is fine, you don't have to. But don't then try to tell those of us who can see how serious it is that we're prioritising something trivial.

I wonder whether, when push comes to shove, the Muslim vote ( 4m people, statistically more likely to vote Labour) will be more convincing than the tiny extremely loud trans activists voices who in many cases are Hard Leftists more vociferously opposed to Starmer than they are to the Tories so won't vote Labour anyway?

Disillusioned11 · 05/01/2024 08:57

IClaudine · 04/01/2024 21:34

Sometimes it is better to play the long game. Allow the Tories to get in again, and things will be crap for most ordinary people and seriously crap for the most vulnerable.

If Labour gets in there is a good chance we will also eventually get PR, which will mean much a much fairer voting system for all of us. Votes for independents and smaller parties will then mean something.

Edited

Labour will bring in PR? I’ve not seen in any statement or policy or suggestion that this is under consideration. Please can you link to this ….that would be a huge deciding factor for me (& a lot of other people)

EasternStandard · 05/01/2024 08:58

Disillusioned11 · 05/01/2024 08:57

Labour will bring in PR? I’ve not seen in any statement or policy or suggestion that this is under consideration. Please can you link to this ….that would be a huge deciding factor for me (& a lot of other people)

Edited
Show quote history

I thought Starmer had ruled it out too. A link to a u turn would be interesting

NoWordForFluffy · 05/01/2024 09:08

EasternStandard · 05/01/2024 08:58

I thought Starmer had ruled it out too. A link to a u turn would be interesting

Show quote history

That was my understanding too.

Our best hope was the half-arsed AV we voted on - and the electorate rejected - during the coalition.

EffieeBriest · 05/01/2024 09:19

@EasternStandard you can be bothered about both things but some issues are more pressing. Being able to feed your child or expecting a decent education for them, receiving good quality care in hospital or by your GP, effective rehabilitation of offenders are more important than trans issues to me at the moment. These things have been decimated over the last 10 years. Quality of life has plummeted for many people. Maybe not for you. The number of trans people is tiny compared to the number of kids going to school hungry. The tories have had their chance and flunked it. What I do know is that they’ve dealt with neither problem properly for all their pro women talk.

EasternStandard · 05/01/2024 09:29

EffieeBriest · 05/01/2024 09:19

@EasternStandard you can be bothered about both things but some issues are more pressing. Being able to feed your child or expecting a decent education for them, receiving good quality care in hospital or by your GP, effective rehabilitation of offenders are more important than trans issues to me at the moment. These things have been decimated over the last 10 years. Quality of life has plummeted for many people. Maybe not for you. The number of trans people is tiny compared to the number of kids going to school hungry. The tories have had their chance and flunked it. What I do know is that they’ve dealt with neither problem properly for all their pro women talk.

‘Trans issues’ is not women’s sex based rights

You can find it irrelevant as the language shows but there’s no point in saying you care if so, it’s incongruous

Whether Labour will deliver what you are expecting I guess we’ll see, is Wales all those things? Maybe Starmer will avoid it

IClaudine · 05/01/2024 09:48

EasternStandard · 05/01/2024 08:58

I thought Starmer had ruled it out too. A link to a u turn would be interesting

Show quote history

I don't think he has officially said one way or the other yet as it will be something to be clarified in the manifesto?

I know there were some references a while back to a "spokesman" saying Starmer has a long standing opposition to PR, but have not seen anything more concrete. But if you have a link where Starmer himself has definitively said no PR I will stand corrected!https:

Eta: I found this from over a year ago, so I guess you are right. Which is disappointing. But maybe he has changed his mind, you never know...

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/24/keir-starmer-defies-call-for-changes-to-first-past-the-post-voting-system

EffieeBriest · 05/01/2024 09:52

@EasternStandard out of interest what is important for you ? Are you happy with the state of the UK ? If life is good for you, feel free to vote for the current crowd. For me the Conservatives have had a decent chance and outside London and the Home Counties at least have failed woefully. The evidence is here right in front of me. Back in the day people punished a party who failed to live up to their promises by booting them out at a GE, now we’re supposed to give them endless chances. Weird.

EasternStandard · 05/01/2024 09:56

EffieeBriest · 05/01/2024 09:52

@EasternStandard out of interest what is important for you ? Are you happy with the state of the UK ? If life is good for you, feel free to vote for the current crowd. For me the Conservatives have had a decent chance and outside London and the Home Counties at least have failed woefully. The evidence is here right in front of me. Back in the day people punished a party who failed to live up to their promises by booting them out at a GE, now we’re supposed to give them endless chances. Weird.

Edited

Honestly I look at Wales and I don’t want that. I also really do not want that with gender ideology taking over even more. Once we’ve lost more I doubt we’ll get it back, for a very long time anyway

I know you and others see something else but on economic policies alone I just can’t see it stacking up