The Epstein list has been released

[KenAdams]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67865190

Complex set of documents though. Even if you can get on the site it's not easy to digest, so we watch this space I suppose.

Very disappointed to hear that Stephen Hawking was involved! I've always looked up to him and seen him as an intelligent, progressive person. Where were their morals???

Agreed. And the word 'blossoming' has weird overtones - like something The Sun would say. It's really vile, all of it.

I totally agree. Even Merriam Webster uses the example of she is blossoming into a very attractive woman when defining the word.

And so it starts. Poor kid.

I really don't get this. Did you think he was a nice person just because he was intelligent or disabled? Creepy blokes come in all shapes and sizes.

Agree the Hello article is grim/ far worse. I linked to the DM purely because it was printed at noon and the Hello article had already been referenced. The place is throwing what it can out there to eclipse the nasty stuff. It’s so blatant. And so weak.

There are a lot of people named whom you could expect to have been massively more astute than Andrew.

Is it really convincing that so many rich and powerful men either turned a blind eye or actively collaborated in his nefarious activities? It's thoroughly depressing if that's the case. Plus just what made Epstein so emboldened that he could rely on their silence? Blackmail?

Obviously those high profile and very wealthy men on the list have probably used their wealth to buy the silence of their victims. Money talks, and everyone has a price. The same as i suspect Epstein never committed suicide but was silenced by a powerful force. Having read the details of that night makes it so obvious what happened, yet nothing was done to investigate. Lots of high level corruption in America, especially when it involves people in politics. J F Kennedy was linked to so many corruption rumours but got away with it all.

Plus just what made Epstein so emboldened that he could rely on their silence? Blackmail?

His NY mansion and the island had an 'operations centre' monitoring cameras in all the rooms.

Jeffrey Epstein had surveillance cameras in every room of his NYC and Little St James properties - for security and to feed his depraved perversions, says former 'sex slave'

This is what Harry was complaining about. If the Palace are using an 8 year old as a distraction technique then William and Kate need to take a hard look at themselves and consider whether they really should be listening to what Harry was actually saying, as it will apply to their own children in the not too distant future. Athough I doubt Hello Magazine need to Palace to tell them to print this garbage, the Daily Mail puff pieces has Palace PR written all over it. However Hello Magazine is very pro Royal. They could easily tell Hello that the children are off limits for this kind of stereotyping. Telling that they don't do it, but are quick to tell Tatler to pull puff pieces that backfire and make any of the Roysls look out of touch.

However, I personally don't think anyone should be banned from church on Christmas Day, whatever they have done

"Whatever they have done" 😡
Your own words @Maireas , not mine, betray you

Nothing "betrays" me.
Yes, I think people should be able to go to church. Anyone. Supervised if necessary.
That does not mean that I would excuse Andrew or his ilk for whatever they have done.
It is surely clear to you from my comments on here what my views are on Andrew and the other Epstein associates.

Liberal icon - nothing will ever happen to him.

Indeed, I was reading about his dodgy "dealings" with young women about 30 years ago.
As I said upthread, the most depressing thing is that most of these men will get away with it.

It's not men (i.e. half the population), it's the establishment and the powerful that are protected. Our own Queen protected Andrew.

Yes, I think people should be able to go to church. Anyone. Supervised if necessary.

If he wants to go to Church, he can. He just doesn't have to do it in the full glare of the cameras.
He could have a private communion if he so wanted. He doesn't. He is trying to set the wheels of rehabilitation in motion.

Our glorious Queen, head of state, protected her son, as will Charlie.

It maybe not all men but it's an awful lot.

Totally.

yes@DewHopper

This is exactly what Harry was describing in Spare. The children are used for PR and puff pieces now to try to deflect from Andrew. How cynical and manipulative .
And when they are older they will be ripped to shreds to protect ‘ the heir.
Its sick

I actually agree, as pp have said. He could easily have gone to an earlier service. My argument is that banning someone from church is a matter for the clergy, no matter how odious a member of the congregation is, they should attend if they want to.
However, he seems to have so little self awareness, he wouldn't even consider going to another service, or any form of low key worship.

Andrew wouldn’t be going anywhere if he hadn’t been cleared by Charles .
Just as Elizabeth had him in the car beside her
The Windsors support and protect him
And the pathetic pap walk has nothing to do with ‘church’ - it’s PR

I seem to remember Stephen Hawking insisting on the young actress Felicity Jones giving him a kiss on the lips when he met her. She was playing his wife in the film about his life, and I found that a bit creepy at the time.

Yes, same as QE11 going riding with him after that interview.

She shelled out when the pressure got too much

Shudders

Andrew could even have gone to the same service. He did not have to do the pr family walk. That is for pr and publicity.