The Epstein list has been released

[KenAdams]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67865190

Complex set of documents though. Even if you can get on the site it's not easy to digest, so we watch this space I suppose.

Then they (JE and GM) must have passed security clearance with flying colours. If not, they would have been politely left off the invite list.

Maybe the Royal Family don't have a problem with nonces and criminals but the british security forces usually do and they were seen as 'no threat' just like Jimmy SaVILE.

Perhaps security forces don't mind if you're only a threat to women, children, disabled, vulnerable, or dead, plebs?? Maybe that's how it works?

Well.... the Queen warned Andrew about Epstein, way before it all imploded, and Prince Phillip warned Andrew against being seduced by 'seedy billionaires'.
He was right about that.

I'm not saying Andrew behaved well, simply getting the facts right. The invitation would have been well before the arrest. But yes, Andrew behaved badly and the invitation showed poor judgement.

I just want to interject with:

Jimmy SAVILE

(not 'Saville')

Just remember how VILE he was and it'll come easy. I point this out now and then as I think we should be accurate when naming him, if we can. No offence intended. And I feel really sorry for everyone similarly named, esp artist Jenny Saville.

I agree and the irony being Andrew and Harry earned medals in combat!

John Lydon was also a very young man when he knew this you are absolutely right about people choosing to turn a blind eye when it suits.

Yes I agree
There is a lot of sticking heads in sand - among the general public I mean

They really let the mask slip during mournathon and the coronation - the arrests of peaceful protesters led to many observers finally seeing it all for what it is .
Some people really need de programmed - when you find yourself defending Andrew ( he’s vile BUT ) - you need to take a good hard look at yourself

I also suspect Andrew is a shield for Charles . While Andrew is there the outrage can be vented on him.

It's quite refreshing to have a break on the Andrew threads from a small number of posters who try to derail other royal threads using various ruses (personal attacks, Harry and Meghan etc) and seem to post almost exclusively on the royal threads, always in defence of Kate and William.

I can only hope that they do actually have some connection to the comms teams and are passing back the message that Andrew is regarded as utterly abhorrent by an articulate majority, so they should maybe take note.

Ever an optimist.

Invitations can be pulled.

Given the arrest warrant was prepared and his Florida property had been turned over before the party, and he was arrested 8 days later ... I would've thought that was the sensible thing to have happened.

But hey... it's Andrew and he manipulated his Mother and took advantage of his position for decades.

His Wiki page makes interesting reading, and yes I've checked out sources

Also let’s not forget documents related to Andrew’s time as an ‘envoy’ have been locked for - what was it - 100 years ?!

Nice democracy we have here

I actually think that is appalling. I believe it is 105 years... just to be sure that anyone with an interest is long dead.
How can this be?
We are not North Korea, but honestly sometimes I wonder. I am hoping that the more this sort of thing goes on, the more people will become disiillusioned and angry

They all need to go. For as long as I can remember they've been an embarrassing anachronism; now it transpires they are something much worse.

But given their 'special' position - which fails to hold them accountable to the laws governing every other citizen of these islands, which ensures that they are the only UK citizens exempt from the FOI Act, which enables interference in laws likely to affect them ie property law, which gives them the option of paying tax at amount they think they will and which we as citizens are not allowed to know - is it any real wonder they turn out the way they do?

If there is one thing Harry says that I believe, it's the issue of the covert press briefing and manipulation of the media. It's transparent, and not at all as subtle as people might think.

It therefore astounds me that there's still a sizeable proportion of UK citizens endorsing this family's total lack of electoral, legal, moral and social accountability when the whole bunch of them are telling us loudly and clearly exactly who they are.

I believe them.

Disgracefully, the files are locked until 2065, but not for 105 years..

"Files relating to Prince Andrews numerous business trips will not be released until 2065, meaning the disgraced Duke will not face public scrutiny unless he lives to the age of 105."

Thanks @Alalain I knew 105 came into it!

Whatever happens, no one will be interested then and that's why they do it.

If there is one thing Harry says that I believe, it's the issue of the covert press briefing and manipulation of the media. It's transparent, and not at all as subtle as people might think

100%. They need new people guiding the press briefing and manipulation though, because the current bunch are lousy at their job.

Thank you @Alalain
I might have been thinking of the ‘royal’ wills- unlike the rest of us those are under lock and key for 100 years I think

@SerafinasGoose
They a really are showing us who they are .
However I don’t agree that there is a sizeable proportion of the population who support the ‘royals’ .
I never have .
We are told this but it has never been tested .

@Rockybooboo I really admired John Lydon for speaking out.

I know this is ignorant of me but I don't like reading about Epstein at all, it gives me the heebie jeebies

The only slight defence Andrew has ever uttered where I thought " yes I can see they" to a degree was that he grew up in houses filled with loads of people and he said lots of people coming and going was usual to him.. Having said that couldn't he notice the difference between his busy houses of legitimate staff and Epson roll call of underage girls and models??

He seems like a very unintelligent man who was left redundant in the royal family scrabbling around for something to do in his life.. He said he was helping rhe UK by meeting very important people at epstiens.
What charity's like the princess trust has he started? What good has this man ever done our country.
Prince Charles for all his faults has done an enormous amount on organic food, climate change change, bio diversity, prince's trust and so on.

Prince Andrew is the most dreadful freeloading oaf. But I think this is also largely for the queen and Philip and the royal set to to answer too.

@Novella4, I sincerely hope you're right.

All I know is I've been a republican since I was a teenager, at which stage I was the real outlier on this issue. Since then, questions about the fitness of the Windsors for position, their relevance, and the need to have a royal family at all have become a lot louder and more insistent. Opinion is certainly changing, and I agree that a great element of being told we love these people is at play, rather than a reflection of real public sentiment. It's safe to say they currently have a serious image problem, made worse without the presence of Elizabeth II.

And yes. Up John Lydon! Strange how with all the rugsweeping going on, the only person with their eyes open and the gumption openly to challenge what he saw, was an anti-establishment figure who was discreted on precisely that basis. This speaks volumes.

I do think potentially their is a difference between what was known within the BBC and parts of the NHS - possibly gossip rather than factual claims which were reported to the police and Government.

The BBC effectively ostracised John Lydon rather than kill the golden goose of Savile.

For someone who claims his innocence and paid “a complete stranger” £Millions, if it were me and I wanted to clear my name, I’d be on the first flight to the US (like he said he would) to cooperate with the FBI and clear up any lingering questions — instead of hiding behind the gates of Royal Lodge like a little girl.
It’s like he wants people to think he’s guilty. If so, good job.

Ghislaine Maxwell might well have trawled all those places, but she recruited Virginia Giuffre from Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago, where Virginia was was working.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59974220

I came from a stable home. Two loving parents, fairly strict, fairly flexible. We lived in a small town.
When I was a teen, I went on a school trip. My parents allowed me to go because they knew all the chaperones and trusted them.
On that trip, the town mayor raped me. I was 15, he was 55ish.
Bad things happen to girls of all circumstances.

@DreamTheMoors I'm so sorry to read this, it's devastating 💐 I hope my words caused no harm or offence and if they did please accept my most sincere apology because I'm a clumsy worded fucker at the best of times.

I was raped very young myself, I don't know who did it and for most of my life I blamed myself for putting myself in a vulnerable situation, I was almost 18. Only now almost 20 years later that I'm realising that nobody but him was to blame.

Bad things happen to all girls and women, regardless of their situations i appreciate that massively, my main concern has been with grooming. With your loving homelife you'd have been less likely to have been groomed than say someone like Virginia who's dad I recently (after reading this thread) I believed drove her to certain places or one of my childhood pals with absolutely inept parents were.

Rape and a long campaign of sustained sexual abuse tend of have different victim profiles with rape simply being "wrong place, wrong time" as its major factor. One off rape, as opposed to domestic rape or similar, is literally a lottery for girls and women.
Both are fucking abhorrent and the perpetrators of either need to be fed alive to lions, fuck em.

Again @DreamTheMoors, I'm sorry for your ordeal, I hope you recovered as much as you could and are healing from trauma, if like me you have those moments and you're back in time, give your 15 year old self a big hug from her pal Lwren 💐🫂

@Lwrenagain and @DreamTheMoors
I am so sorry to read what happened to you both.