DD never wants to move out

[Elswano]

Not sure where to post, just looking to see if anyone can poke any holes in this plan before we get too attached to the idea.
DD is 18, she's been through a horrible time, I don't want to get in to it on a public form but she has twin DDs, the father (sperm donor) is in prison, he will never be in there life. She's at uni.
Since she turned 18 in June there's been conversation about if she wanted her own place. Today she asked to talk to her dad and I, said she doesn't want to move out, not while at uni and maybe not ever (she said maybe if she met someone but even then she'd hate having to move out).
We are mortgage free, 5 bed, DS (21) still at home too. DDs only real income is her uni loans, we don't want her to get a job until uni is over unless she wants to as her being around for her kids is important. She cooks twice a week, does all the cleaning of her room, the kids room and the playroom, plus her bathroom most weeks.
DH said we need to think about it and discuss it once we've all thought about it.
So basically can anyone think of anything we should discuss before agreeing to her living here with the kiddies long term?

So it's okay for the 21 year old to stay but the 18 year old needs to make plans to leave?

Again, you can't compare the two. The 21 year old is isn't a parent of twins.

Just wanted to add that you all sound lovely and well done to all of you for rallying round and helping both your DD and DS get through education. It’s a testament to how good a mum YOU are that your kids want to stick around and know they are supported and loved!

Perhaps agree a time limit with your DH (eg, 3 years) when you’ll re-assess the whole situation. You don’t need to tell DD this time limit, by the time. But it will allow your DH to feel comfortable that it’s not necessarily ‘forever’.

The division of labour isn’t bad but, like other posters, I’d recommend that your DS does a bit more and DD does slightly less. It’s just a tweak, though. I’d recommend:

COOKING: You do 2x (but only because you said you like cooking), each of DH/DD/DS do 1x night and alternate a second night (so they do a second night every 3 weeks). Then you still have one night ‘off’ each week where you go out or get takeaway, and I’d recommend that this alternates between a family meal and ‘date night’ for you and your DH, as it doesn’t sound like get much time alone.

BATHROOM CLEANING: DS and DD move to 50/50 for bathroom cleaning but DD makes sure she clears up any ‘toddler-specific mess’’ each night (bath toys, splashed water, toothpaste trails, empties nappy bins, etc) as it wouldn’t be fair to include that in DS cleaning.

How does that sound?

You're right, there is a difference. As a single man with no children it would be much easier for him to move out into a shared house or flat.

She is 18 with twins and no partner, she will need all the support she can get in these early years. When the twins are at school and your daughter has finished uni, I’m sure she will want to move out herself. Don’t rush things - this stage in her life is vital so she can setup her adult life. It is vital for her and the twins.

@OldCrone and the other side of the coin is that it's much easier to share your home with a single adult child than a child with two energetic toddlers.

Having children comes with consequences and not all of them are positive. I know OP has explained the situation but I still don't think there are many people who would want to live with toddler grandchildren full time in their fifties. That's hard.

If you didn’t want to run the risk of having to care for grandchildren, you shouldn't have had children. Having children comes with consequences and not all of them are positive.

I would ask the 21 yr old to leave after he finishes studying and go into a house share, if there are any available.

Couldn’t imagine asking my child to leave the family home. Honestly I wonder why so many on Mumsnet even have children, they certainly don’t seem to like motherhood.

Oh well, I can't imagine living with toddlers in my 50s @notahappybunny7 but OP has to, so something else has to give. I come from a culture where children live with parents their entire lives, but I am not so keen on it myself. Have seen how it completely infantilises children. I had DC expecting them to be relatively independent, at least when earning.

I am certain people on here with young children will give different answers. Those of us who have been parenting for a long time might want our own space and the freedom to travel.

All my cousins are in their 40s and still live with their parents, admittedly in another country where this is common. Why would they leave? After all, asking your DC to leave means you don't like them! God forbid mothers have any life of their own.

To everyone being vile about the OP's daughter's "terrible choices", please read everything the OP has said about the circumstances of the conception and the sperm donor and use a modicum of common sense.

OP, you sound like a wonderful mum and grandma. I do think your son needs to do a bit more and maybe your husband a bit less, but I totally agree with @Aquamarine1029- all she needs to know now is that she can stay with you for the foreseeable future. She may well want to move out in 10 years or so.

Also, while I appreciate your husband didn't anticipate living with young children in his 50s, I'm sure your daughter didn't anticipate having twins in her teens. If she can deal with the situation, he can.

10 years! Jesus. OP's DH may scarper by then. I don't agree that parents have to take the risk of living with their grandchildren if they have children.

I can read between the lines and make an educated guess at your daughter’s circumstances. I get not wanting to feel like your son is being punished for his sister having children but I think the distribution of chores actually punished your daughter for having children, for making the least objectionable choice for her.

Rather than seeing it as the kids bringing in far more disruption and therefore she needs to do more work, see it as upskilling both of them to live independently. As they get older they need to take on more responsibilities so they can function when they move out. In your son’s case, I think this is really important because his current view is that dad works full time to “provide” for everyone, forgetting you work 3 days a week. You do all the communal areas. His sister cares for her twins and does more than her share of cleaning for their shared areas. He’s got the view it’s fine to mow the lawn a couple of times a year, maybe clean the bathroom once in a while and the women in his life will manage everything else. He might not like cooking but he needs to be able to cook for when he’s living on his own or living with a partner in the future. Maybe try something like hello fresh with him, the recipes are easy, he can pick them with consultation with the family and then cook 2x a week. He doesn’t need to go and buy all the bits for the recipe as it’ll be sent to him.

Your desire to not punish him is actually making him less likely to be in a happy relationship in the future. Actually probably both of your children because your daughter will see housework as women’s work and put up with a lazy partner.

It wouldn't be punishing him to do his fair share. Presumably if your daughter didn't have children, you'd expect exactly the same contribution from both of them. Expecting your daughter to do more just because she has children, and reducing what you expect from your son, makes it look as though you are punishing your daughter for having children.

Expecting your daughter to do more just because she has children, and reducing what you expect from your son, makes it look as though you are punishing your daughter for having children.

No, it's expecting her to do her children's share as well as her own. That's not a punishment, it's a natural consequence of being a parent.

If this was a boy with twin babies, nobody would be saying his sister ought to do more!

Yes @margotrose but clearly the DD here has extenuating circumstances. Therefore the DS should do more.
Currently he appears to be doing the least.

Dear OP, your family sound truly lovely. I can only guess at the trauma your DD endured which led to her beautiful twins.

Perhaps another check-in with your DH as to how things can be made less stressful for him- does/ can he have an escape room, study etc.

Perhaps a re-evaluation in the New Year of chore split would be useful.

But I suspect things will resolve over time. Right now you are doing your very best for your whole family. Good for you.

OP, if what you're insinuating is what I'm thinking, then I think your daughter needs even more support and has managed to do exceptionally well given the circumstances. She's doing great and shouldn't be expected to do more given that having children really wasn't something she chose at this age (as opposed to those who willingly have unprotected sex and wonder why they got pregnant).

Your husband needs to let her have some peace of mind as she's already got her hands full with house chores, kids and school. I can understand not wanting to have new responsibilities for kids after you've finished with yours but as you're implying that this came about due to unexpected (and negative) circumstances, he should give some leeway.

The problem I have with your son is not that he only has 1 day to cook but that he doesn't usually do so. So it's not about him having one more day, he doesn't even do the one day he's given. If you're going to be having a takeaway once a week anyway, then it should fall on one of the days your daughter or husband cooks, for obvious reason, or yours for that matter because I think you're doing exceptionally well too trying to juggle everybody and keep them happy.

Your son doesn't get to skip his cooking day and it has nothing to do with his sister. Once a day is sufficient and I think the way you divided it is good enough. If you want to review it, he should have 2 days while your husband/you have 1 day and you/your husband and daughter keep their 2 days. Your husband shouldn't not have a day at all to also pitch in with cooking regardless of his work. Everyone is working at something in your home - if it's not school, it's housework, kids, etc - so it's only fair that he has atleast 1.

Your son also has to keep up with his one week a month cleaning. He seems to be allowed to skip that too. It seems you let him off his duties because you don't want to upset him or make him feel like he's being punished as you say but so far, none of his duties have anything to do with his sister so he only has to do what he's agreed to do and not necessarily have more added for now.

Op Thank God your DD has you and your husband as her parents, you sound wonderful, the home sounds like a very happy, safe place for a young mother to be living in.

What I would suggest, mainly for the sake of your marriage is to try and manage more time just for you and DH, the odd weekend away, dinner out during the week etc, just the two of you. You all sound like intelligent people, tbh who cleans the bathroom is almost neither here nor there, just sit down and have a chat about it and the distribution of chores.

As to your DD 'never' leaving home, never is a long time, she will eventually be in a position to be independent and her life will change, the kids will grow and I'm sure they will move on. Just be so thankful you are able to be there for them right now i such a time of need. (and perhaps spoil DH a bit, Im sure I would the odd bit of spoiling if I found myself living with toddlers at my age )

Op, please reassure your daughter that she can stay, you can revisit it in years to come, but now is not the time to burden her with further worry.

I don't agree with that I'm afraid.

While what happened to his sister is horrendous, it wasn't his fault and it shouldn't be down to him to do extra as a result - that's his parents' job.

Nobody has said he should do extra. All anyone has said is that he should do his fair share. Not sit there like some little god who has all his meals prepared by his parents and sister and never does any cleaning.

While what happened to his sister is horrendous, it wasn't his fault and it shouldn't be down to him to do extra as a result - that's his parents' job.

We aren't talking about him having to sweep chimneys to make up a shortfall, people are suggesting he could cook one more meal a week and clean the bathroom a bit more often...

OP said she doesn't even think he'd have an issue doing more than he does now and that it's more her who has been resistant to ask him to do so.

This is clearly a loving, supportive family and it's evident that their DD has been the victim of a horrific set of circumstances and has battled it in a way that would frankly be beyond most people twice her age, getting such brilliant results that will help her provide for her children in the future, while also being an excellent mum to them in the present.

And in such a loving, supportive family, I'm sure their son will understand that cooking an extra meal a week and doing the bathroom more really isn't a massive deal.

Nobody has said he should do extra. All anyone has said is that he should do his fair share. Not sit there like some little god who has all his meals prepared by his parents and sister and never does any cleaning.

His fair share shouldn't mean being responsible for the mess his sister's children create though.

I agree he should do his share of general housework but it shouldn't be the case that he clears up any toddler mess.

And in such a loving, supportive family, I'm sure their son will understand that cooking an extra meal a week and doing the bathroom more really isn't a massive deal.

But that's what he should be doing at the moment anyway - if OP isn't pushing it then that's on her.

What I'm saying is that I don't think he should be doing more than his share simply because his sister has toddlers to look after.