DD never wants to move out

[Elswano]

Not sure where to post, just looking to see if anyone can poke any holes in this plan before we get too attached to the idea.
DD is 18, she's been through a horrible time, I don't want to get in to it on a public form but she has twin DDs, the father (sperm donor) is in prison, he will never be in there life. She's at uni.
Since she turned 18 in June there's been conversation about if she wanted her own place. Today she asked to talk to her dad and I, said she doesn't want to move out, not while at uni and maybe not ever (she said maybe if she met someone but even then she'd hate having to move out).
We are mortgage free, 5 bed, DS (21) still at home too. DDs only real income is her uni loans, we don't want her to get a job until uni is over unless she wants to as her being around for her kids is important. She cooks twice a week, does all the cleaning of her room, the kids room and the playroom, plus her bathroom most weeks.
DH said we need to think about it and discuss it once we've all thought about it.
So basically can anyone think of anything we should discuss before agreeing to her living here with the kiddies long term?

It sounds like DD is doing brilliantly with a lot on her plate.

Your DS is the problem, he should be doing far more at his age. If he were away at university he’d be cooking every night and cleaning a shared house. I know primary aged kids with more responsibility than this.

This is a very sexist household considering parents are only in their early 50s.

I think some posters are being disingenuous, it's pretty irrelevant how often DS cleans the bathroom.

You and your DH are both doing a wonderful thing supporting your DD but I'm sure neither of you envisaged living with two boisterous two year olds at this stage of your life.

I think it's entirely natural and right that your DH wants to at least have an idea of an end point for this arrangement , even if that is a number of years in the future.

I would not expect my uni age DC to contribute rent as it's not my culture= wasn't born British- and I don't need it. Equally, I would expect them to not have DC if they can't support and rear them on their own, especially as there appears to be only one breadwinner in this household of 6. That's not my culture either, and strikes me as a massive task for Op and her DH.

Did she do something to antagonise your DH in her early teens? Daughters are usually darlings of their dads because dads know that if/when they need help, daughters will do something but not necessarily sons. This is from my personal experience because my brother is a knob. But, sometimes if there has been a clash of ideas/thoughts/plans between the father and daughter, then he will usually expect the son/daughter to fly out of the dove when they turn 18. Otherwise I dont see a reason why your DH wants DD to leave the house while the DS is warming the sofa doing nothing in the house?

@OssomMummy1 she had twins at 16. You don't think that might change a relationship? I would be absolutely furious at DD if she got pregnant and stuck me with the childcare.

You don't want to make any changes though as you are happy with the current set up. People have suggested rules or boundaries you could put into place but you don't want that. It sounds like it is your dh who wanted you two to discuss this so why not do exactly that and see how he feels and whether he thinks any rules or boundaries need to be put into place for your dd or what if anything needs to be put in place.

Also her 21 year old brother still lives at home, if you’re kicking her out then he needs to go too.

But the 21 year old doesn't have two toddlers - it's not remotely comparable.

I don't think people are putting two and two together here.

The DD has had a 'terrible time', "little choice' in the pregnancy and man who fathered them is in prison.

I don't think the DD needs to be judged for becoming pregnant in this scenario (or any!).

Otherwise I dont see a reason why your DH wants DD to leave the house while the DS is warming the sofa doing nothing in the house?

Because she has toddlers! I wouldn't want to be living with toddler twins in my fifties when my kids were grown up.

Living with with a single adult child is very different to living with an adult child plus their two toddlers!

DD didn't chose to get pregnant or have sex for that matter but it's not something I'll discuss here.
DH dotes on DD, absolutely adores her to pieces and we weren't furious at all, heartbroken and worried and angry (not at her) but never furious.

She’s 18. The world will seem very scary with such young children. You are all making the best of a bad situation at the moment. I can’t see how it could or should change much just yet. Ds shouldn’t be expected to do as much as her. It sounds like he does pull his weight. Maybe like you say, dh could drop cooking, but it sounds as if everything runs smoothly as it is.

The kids will get much easier as they are older, she’ll grow up, change and become more confident and wats more independence. She might meet someone. It’s likely she’ll want to move out at some point in the future. I’d say all that and assume for now that she won’t be there forever. (I can see why dh is concerned about a busy house as he gets older.) However you can caveat that by saying that of course she has a home for as long as she needs.

Agree. But my psychiatrist mind tells me that there is more to it than that. Trust me, I have assessed hundreds like this in last 35 years. A father-daughter relationship is mostly envious to the world; occasionally it can be so rotten. There is often a trigger event for the dad to turn against his own child.

Young mum part of this aside. At 18 I definitely didn't want to move out. My boyfriend (25 at the time) wanted to and I ran away from him at top speed. Met my DH at 21 while I was at uni, by 23 we were living together. A lot can change in a couple of years.

She's a mum, but she's still growing up. Give her a few years to finish uni and figure out what she wants in life before having this conversation. If she didn't have the twins and was just at uni, would you be having this chat now or just letting her study, as you have with your son?

So it's okay for the 21 year old to stay but the 18 year old needs to make plans to leave?

She's 18, she's a single mum (and sounds quite traumatic what she's been through) she needs your support right now. Revisit it when she's around 25 and had time to get a decent paid job and sort through her trauma.

Maybe a solution would be to have a second child free sitting/garden room where your husband could have some space/quiet when he feels the need.
Otherwise it all sounds remarkably wonderful. Fantastic how you’ve all pulled together over what could have turned out so much worse. I think a celebratory dinner all round after any meeting about expectations. After what she’s been through, I’m not surprised she doesn’t want to think about handling everything on her own. She’s doing just brilliantly, you all are.
Young people do a lot of growing up between 18 and 22, and it’s very likely that she will want to have her own place when she has a job and the children are in school.

I think as a parent I want my children to have their own independent life. I would set the goal of moving out once University is done and she has a stable job but not before then.

Yes, it's unclear why there was little choice even to get an abortion, given this was hardly an ideal situation to bring kids into.

Anyway, what's done is done, and OP and her Dh now have no choice but to suck it up for however many years they have to. Maybe they can build an annex for her DH.

your situation seems to work for you all, for the time being, but I would suggest getting your DD to put her name down for Council housing as she may change her mind after finishing uni. As someone who lives with older 2 adult sons whilst we are retired, I can see your DH’s view.

She was groomed then. In that case, you can't ask her to move out, but I think it will be fair to ask your DS to move out when he finishes uni and do far more than he currently does. My own DS has a part time job in uni and he is doing a very punishing course.

I can see how it's hard to find the right balance and try and meet everyone's needs.

I think the good news is you have a lot of favourable winds

• you and your DH are young and good health
• you aren't overcrowded
• you are financially comfortable
• your family unit sounds happy and stable and you are loving supportive parents
• Your daughter has done amazingly well to stay in education and get her a levels. (I barely managed to retain my job the first year back and I didn't have twins!!!!)

Maybe giving your DH a bit more of a break is the answer?

It sounds like everyone is okay with the status quo except your DH.
It might be worth reminding him it (in reality) won't be "forever". You can revisit in 3/5 years.
In the meantime these are the ways you can make life more palatable in a few different ways...

• No cooking, DS takes that day.
• Maybe you guys can start doing a "date night" cinema, theatre, bar and restaurant, nice events. That was he is out for bedtime and doesnt have to hear the 10-30mins screaming 😬
• remind him again! 😊 it's not forever and it's lovely to be such a close family and have time with GC.
• think about if it's possible to create a space for himself like a summer room in the garden or a games room/den (converted garage?) where he can potter about in. Or an extension so you have 2 sitting rooms, one is adult only...

Would that help him do you think? It might be worth a conversation

Seriously, how can people be so obtuse. The OP clearly says she doesn’t want to go into the details of the conception but a) dad is in prison and b) will never have anything to do with the children and c) has been dropping lots of hints that this was not consensual!

OP. Your daughter sounds amazing, she was only 16, did her GCSE’s while pregnant then her A levels and is now studying for a degree. Does all bath and bed times, is clearly ‘mum’, cooking and cleaning!

She will want her own place eventually, but give her time.

(It sounds like parental guilt that you didn’t want his sister’s trauma impacting your son, but you have probably gone too far and he isn’t pulling his weight)

From all your posts @Elswano i think as a family you’re all pulling together and doing an amazing job.
Why not just tell dd that it’s too soon to discuss future living arrangements and that all you need is for her to carry on as she is atm. If she was assaulted (?) then she’s probably happier in her home where she feels safe.
She’s lucky to have you and you’re lucky to have a responsible dd and beautiful dgc.

@Elswano just wanted to say you sound absolutely lovely 😊

I have an issue with the the ' I don't think we are the type of family those rules would work for.'

You are essentially making her dependent on you rather than gradually encouraging and enabling her independence - which all 18 year olds need. The twins complicate the matter as she clearly does need additional support but she also needs to learn that independence and not get too comfy either.

What happens if something happens to you and your husband? She needs to be able to cope with all the life admin without you around. Living at home won't facilitate learning those skills.

Then there's the inheritance issue. What happens to your estate - are you going to leave the house to her because she lives there? What happens to her brother? Is he an afterthought because he didn't have twins at the appropriate time and then decide to abdicate full responsibility for them? He will massively resent her and that's a ticking timebomb for future relations with him.

Because that's really what you are allowing - her to abdicate responsibility in the long term and that's not in hers or the twins best interests for a variety of reasons.

And then theirs your comments about your DH wanting his adult life post children whilst you want to infantilise your daughter and have control over her life and your grandkids life indefinitely. And yes that's what it is - you not wanting to let your child grow up and selfishly encouraging your daughter to 'decide' to abdicate responsibility. She probably doesn't feel that she has the confidence to move away because mummy is her safety net and always sorts out her shit for her when things get tough.

Parents are there to enable independence precisely because one day they won't be there in the natural order of things. If you don't enable it, you leave your kids with the double trauma of their grief and having to navigate adult life without support rather than making sure they can whilst you are still alive. Worse still she may turn to her brother because she's unable to cope. And no you CANNOT learn all this still living at home even with best intentions. It's that moment of closing the door and being 'alone' in your own place and being the one responsible for keeping a roof over you and feeding yourself.

Yes she's 18 and actually I wouldn't expect her to do all this anytime soon. But I wouldnt pander to the idea - I'd start managing her expectations now and say that staying at home forever isn't in anyone's best interests and at some point she will need to think about future plans living away from you but you will support her to do that.

I'm afraid you have a bad case of being the overbearing mother who doesn't know when to let go. It isn't healthy. And it just stores up problems for the future. It's very possible to be too supportive which just means you end up with adults unable to live in the real world when the time eventually comes.

Honestly your DH needs to not be having this conversation with her. She's come through significant events, is a mother to twins and at uni. I take my hat off to her most 18 year olds in her situation would not be where she is. She does not need extra pressure, stress or the thought that she's in the way or not wanted at home.

Don't raise the subject tell your DH to button it and once she has a job after uni then examine it with her then.

I would say work wise for her CV if she can get stuff in holidays or internships etc it will help.