DD never wants to move out

[Elswano]

Not sure where to post, just looking to see if anyone can poke any holes in this plan before we get too attached to the idea.
DD is 18, she's been through a horrible time, I don't want to get in to it on a public form but she has twin DDs, the father (sperm donor) is in prison, he will never be in there life. She's at uni.
Since she turned 18 in June there's been conversation about if she wanted her own place. Today she asked to talk to her dad and I, said she doesn't want to move out, not while at uni and maybe not ever (she said maybe if she met someone but even then she'd hate having to move out).
We are mortgage free, 5 bed, DS (21) still at home too. DDs only real income is her uni loans, we don't want her to get a job until uni is over unless she wants to as her being around for her kids is important. She cooks twice a week, does all the cleaning of her room, the kids room and the playroom, plus her bathroom most weeks.
DH said we need to think about it and discuss it once we've all thought about it.
So basically can anyone think of anything we should discuss before agreeing to her living here with the kiddies long term?

Your son needs to be doing more. If she’s got 2 kids and studying he should be capable of at least matching her contribution to the household.

I do understand that having small kids around when you were expecting your life to wind down can be annoying but tbh you Dh needs to get his head straight. You can’t expect an 18 yr old to be out on her own with 2 kids while studying, it’s not on and it’s cruel. As a parent sometimes you just have to suck it up so your kids have a better chance of being completely independent in the future.

But the twins are in the equation and OP babysitting them daily.
A shed in the garden sounds appropriate for the adults who need a break.

I'm puzzled by the 21yo only having to clean the bathroom 1 in 3 weeks. DD has far more to do and I doubt two small children are using the bathroom alone and messing it up.

Your son needs to be cooking 2-3 times a week.

Remind your DH of how many grandparents get to see their grand children grow.

OP I think you should be making long term plans, allow both children to stay for now but what will happen in 5 or 10 years?

Will you want to down size? Would you be looking at a place with a 'granny' flat / annex?

If she moves out, how will she work? I'm assuming you wouldn't be looking after the children as she's moved out, so how would she afford childcare for two small children on what would I assume be a low level starter job?

If she stays with you at least until the kids are at school (and even then the school day is not compatible with working hours) she can get her career started and be earning enough to support herself.

I don't really see why having babies means she's more likely to be expected to move out at 18? I'm fully expecting my child to be at home until 25ish, with support through uni and then somewhere to live until he's settled into his career - same as I did. And your son needs to be pulling his weight at home and be doing as much as her, no reason he can't cook or clean the house as much as she does.

It makes sense to us, if DD lived alone she'd be doing the bathroom every week surely?
Her twins are toddlers they definitely contribute to bathroom mess, she is responsible for them. So her doing 2/3 and DS 1/3 makes sense to us.
For cooking DD does 2, DH does 2, I do 2 and DS is meant to do 1 but usually we end up eating out, or going to family etc. If DS did 2/3 times a week, which one of us would give up day or 2? Again if DD lived alone she would have to cook everyday for her and the kids so it makes sense she does more than him.
They are her children, not DSs so by default DD being responsible for 2 more people in the house ups her workload over DSs.
DS does plenty of non regular tasks like maintaining the garden all summer, window cleaning etc.
We are unlikely to downsize, well hopefully ever but definitely not for a long long time. We are only 51 and 53 respectively and love our house.

I don't understand why everyone is expecting DA to do as much as DD when DD is also responsible for her children and the extra work they bring? If they were both in the exact same positon fair enough but DS isn't responsible for any children so his share of the workload is reflective of that.

I am really shocked that your husband is expecting an 18-year-old with twins to move out! I'm also shocked at how little your son does. You are preparing him to be a husband to someone and he is going to be pretty rubbish at it!

I dont understand why everyone is saying they would be really happy for their DC to be with them until 25. DC yes. But their DC too?

I also don't think OPs DD will be able to move out even after she graduates. Because childcare is only going to increase stratospherically in the next few years. I'd make a plan for the DS to move out as he is on his own.

You need to set ground rules so that things aren't too easy for her and aren't too difficult for you.

(a) make sure she's always pulling her weight in contributing to the household domestically and financially
(b) charge her rent and board sufficient that she doesn't have a significantly larger disposable income living with you than she would independently. If she gets used to being able to spend her income on nonessentials she'll never feel she can afford to move out
(c) manage her expectations on how much childcare you are prepared to do. Don't let yourself become the prinary caregiver and do not make yourself constantly available whenever needed with no consequences.
(d) don't allow your home to be a place where she can live carefree. It's your home and you need to demand that it's kept as an environment that's optimised for you, not for her and not for her children. E.g no toys in the sitting room, impose your own preferences for what's on tv and what's for dinner. Be more assertive than accommodating sufficiently that she starts to long for autonomy

At the moment she clearly needs to be there at home. It is far too early to consider her moving out. Once her DDs are old enough to get the 30 free hours of nursery care and she's finished her uni course it becomes realistic that she could move out. She needs to be looking forward to that in anticipation of how great it will be to finally be able to feel free.

To answer some Qs

• I think there was an assumption DD may move out where there wasn't with DS because her having children does impact the rest of the house. I'm sure if she made this choice we'd contribute to rent etc. However she doesn't want to leave and I don't want her to so it works fine as is. DH is a GP there are definitely times where he gets in from a long tiresome work day and could do without toddlers screaming/running around. I guess he thought those days were past him !!

He'd never force any of our children out though. DD does more housework than DS as she is responsible for the extra work created by having children.

Not expecting your ds to step up is part of the problem. He’s not even doing the 50% of what you’re expecting your dd to do.

One day, he will move out, probably live with someone, maybe have kids. You’re setting the bar really low for him whilst setting it high for your dd and this may well have a knock on effect on how he is as a partner and father.

You also hinted earlier on that much as your dd decided to keep the babies, perhaps it wasn’t her choice to get pregnant in the first place.

Think about what message you are sending to your dd as well.

Your ds is living at home. He is part of the household and as a family he should pitch in, especially considering he is 3 years older. It takes a village and all that.

As your daughter is busy with her children, it really wouldn’t hurt for your son to cook twice and your daughter once. With her having uni work and kids, I’d be looking to make her life a little easier, not harder. How many 30 year old women could cope with uni, twins, cooking, housework. They do it but they struggle, they often have a partner to share the load. It like, ‘well she’s got kids, we must make her do even more’. Poor girl. ‘Our son well, he’s not got kids we’ll order a takeaway when it’s his night to cook.’ Why not order the takeaway on your daughters night, after uni, uni work, cleaning, looking after twins...I’d want a takeaway not to cook!

I think you need to have an open and adult conversation about what your expectations for the near future were and how those have had to change, and what they are now.

For example, her making the move from living with you as your child to it being more of an adult house-share type set up, where everyone contributes and pulls their weight, and the contributions expected will change as your GC get older, as your DC's get older, earn more etc etc.

So there is no expectation that either of them will live there permanently, provided for as if they were still teenagers.

Then if that works for you all and you can all live together, I can't see a problem.

Make sure there is a way for any of you to open up discussion about changing things at any point though, so you CAN say 'this isn't working' and they can say 'nah, I want to move out' without fearing any drama.

While I appreciate some of what you're saying, I don't think we are the type of family those rules would work for.
I don't want any financial contribution from her, we don't need it for 1 and I want her to be in the best financial position possible, being a single mum of two and student would have her scrapping to survive if we didn't cover lots for her, I don't want that.
The house will always be suitable for everyone's needs equally but the children are a priority. I want my grandchildren to know this is their home too, they can play with their toys wherever they like (aside from my room and DSs room), they are little and should feel loved, welcomed and wanted.
I want all my children/grandchildren to be happy, healthy and well cared for. Why shouldn't they have a relatively carefree life?

I am currently living with parents with my baby. I'm in my 30s and they help me a lot even with bath times etc! They babysit occasionally when I do a keeping in touch day or a rare evening out.

If your husband has worries or concerns he should list them and you can problem solve. Eg does he think the children will break things. Has he lost use of his quiet living room. All of these things can be managed eg your daughter could agree to take them out on Sunday afternoons so he can sit and read in peace. He's the one with the issue so it would be helpful if he gets more specific.

I don't think you should even talk about her moving out for another 5 years at least

But your DS is doing less than any of the adults. Why doesn't he cook 2 or 3 times a week and you or your DH get a break?

If your DD moves out he will have to clean his bathroom every week and cook 3 times a week, so he's benefitting from her work. She's at University, caring for twins, and doing her brother's cleaning and cooking. It sounds like you're punishing her for getting pregnant.

@Elswano because currently you and your DH are working all hours to make your DC comfortable and make up for poor choices, and your DH seems to be sick of it, on top of his stressful job. ( which is not to discount your stress at the moment).

Well we aren't working all hours to provide for them. DH could cut down to 4 days if he wanted to, he doesn't want to. I'm already down to 3 and don't feel like I'm doing an awful lot. They go to nursery in the morning of the two days I have them so I catch up on house work, then have a lovely afternoon with them which is great for us all. DH doesn't have to do anything more than he would otherwise. I appreciate screaming kids aren't always fun, but in the grand scheme of things it's a small price to pay for our children's happiness no?
Also there were no "poor choices"

OP I agree you need to say she's welcome for as long as she wants. If it would make your DH feel better you could always say you can all review after graduation or when DT go to school (when she'll need childcare support a bit less). But she sounds responsible and responsive so hopefully if niggles arise you'll be able to raise them easily.

Given you've got the opportunity to lay down ground rules though, I'd be minded to say now, before the issue arises, that you won't allow a new partner to move in. She'll accept it with good grace because it's not in her mind. But it puts you on the front foot later. You can always relent if whoever he is turns out to be a good egg, but it won't seem like anything personal if he's not.

just an observation/ challenge to your thinking

Again if DD lived alone she would have to cook everyday for her and the kids so it makes sense she does more than him.

if your DS lived alone he would need to cook and prepare every single one of his meals not 1 per fortnight…
he also has arguably way more bandwidth so cooking a meal as an adult with no responsibilities is arguably easier for him.

fair doesn’t mean equal

Hi op, you seem a supportive family which is lovely!
I've nothing to add pp haven't but please look at the entitled to website to make sure dd is getting all the financial entitlements for dgds.

Your DD sounds like a great mum, unexpected as it sounds, you must be very proud x

I agree

Ok you don't want to give the full picture OP but from where I am standing, it does seem like a terrible choice and your DH sounds unhappy. I guess if you don't want to lay down any rules, he has to suck it up for another 5 or 6 years. He clearly doesn't think it's a small price, and I certainly would not. I want to be travelling the world at this stage, not babysitting.

Maybe a conversation about redistribution of work load going into the new year is needed.

I'm always worried that DS will feel he's being "punished" for his sister having kids. Frankly he loves his nieces and probably wouldn't mind being asked to do more, it more comes from me I think!!

I just don't know how to balance it fairly between us all, maybe DH should be skipped on for cooking since he goes out to provide for them 5 days a week (also isn't a great cook so I don't think anyone would cry at that loss!!)

I don't know where you get this idea we are babysitting non stop from??
I do two afternoons a week, that's it. DH does nothing bar the rare evening when it's asked for.
Like I've said it wasn't a terrible choice, I refuse to go into specifics but there wasn't a lot of choice involved and the decisions DD made were what made her feel better in awful circumstances, I will stand by them unconditionally as would DH.